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Upgrade to CT?


GdnrBob

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4 minutes ago, TomicTime said:

Treo CT for sure - given competent low negative feedback electronics, always work the transducers first. Much as i love tge model 2 and they are capable of much - the Treo and in particular the CT are amazing. The extra $ available to RV allows a much lower noisefloor cabinet ( cabinet within a cabinet ) to allow better drivers to shine I think you will also find the Treo to be fantastic at lower volumes than what you may need w 2’s.

Just my two cents…..

THANKS, Tomic. I see you may have been in Tacoma for RV's recent visit, which I couldn't attend. They are "my" dealer and I just talked to Bob about ideas.  Sorry I missed you—I enjoy your posts and would like to meet someday. I am in Port Angeles, WA.  Cheers.

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I should have posted sooner, but things seem to take more time these days.

In any case, I got the Treo CT's and installed them in the Main system.

First impressions:

The system seems more 'alive'/ 'present'.  Soundstage seems to be a bit more forward, too.

I also felt the speakers 'beaming' a bit more than I like.

Hence, I want to set them up from scratch. So, I found some granite surface plates that fit the Treo's nicely. Unfortunately, it means I need to do some room reworking. Not a biggy.

I, also, think I need John Rutan and Samir to come over and recalibrate the Sub 3's. 

(I initially put them on some Townshend Bars, but the bass never seemed quite right. They are now on their pins/cones and things sound a little better, but I think having them recalibrated would be the best way to go.- And, I can see if Johnny can give me some temporary 'tweaks' to enhance the bass when I want to give it a bit more 'oomph'. without messing everything up).

 

I really should try to do this myself, as I would like to help @ctsooner, and @dsisssup calibrate their speakers.

bob

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@BKDad,  perhaps 'beaming' isn't the best word, but the CT's seemed to be a bit 'forward' in the upper mid range- something I am sensitive to. And, I didn't really do a lot of listening/comparing different music. I could sense I needed to dial things in again. So, after finding some inexpensive granite surface plates, I decided to start from scratch.

 

The granite plates are in place. I have to sand down the areas that needed filler and paint the columns, before I put the speakers back in place. After which, I will start leveling and dialing in the proper angles using my super dooper Leica Disto. The hard part is the Sub 3 calibration, which I will probably take Jim's (@tomictime) offer.

Bob

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1 hour ago, GdnrBob said:

@BKDad,  perhaps 'beaming' isn't the best word, but the CT's seemed to be a bit 'forward' in the upper mid range- something I am sensitive to. And, I didn't really do a lot of listening/comparing different music. I could sense I needed to dial things in again. So, after finding some inexpensive granite surface plates, I decided to start from scratch.

Toe-out/straight/etc. may be a way to  possibly alter the brightness.?

 

1 hour ago, GdnrBob said:

The granite plates are in place. I have to sand down the areas that needed filler and paint the columns, before I put the speakers back in place. After which, I will start leveling and dialing in the proper angles using my super dooper Leica Disto. The hard part is the Sub 3 calibration, which I will probably take Jim's (@tomictime) offer.

Bob

If they have not lost them, then one could use a marble or ball bearing to get them close to level.

Are they headstones going on the floor directly? Or on some small pieces of carpet pads or other decouplers?

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4 hours ago, GdnrBob said:

@BKDad,  perhaps 'beaming' isn't the best word, but the CT's seemed to be a bit 'forward' in the upper mid range- something I am sensitive to. And, I didn't really do a lot of listening/comparing different music. I could sense I needed to dial things in again. So, after finding some inexpensive granite surface plates, I decided to start from scratch.

 

The granite plates are in place. I have to sand down the areas that needed filler and paint the columns, before I put the speakers back in place. After which, I will start leveling and dialing in the proper angles using my super dooper Leica Disto. The hard part is the Sub 3 calibration, which I will probably take Jim's (@tomictime) offer.

Bob

Most likely the tilt is off!  RV

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5 hours ago, GdnrBob said:

Well, I got things sanded and painted today, and hope to set up the speakers tomorrow, when the paint has dried.

First step is to level the granite surface plates...

B

Don't bother to level the granite plates but put a thin piece of carpet cut slightly smaller than the granite plates between the granite and the floor.  Level and tilt the TREO CT with a target 8 inches above your ear height.  Use Vandersteen Spike Shoes under the cones and spike on top of the granite.  Enjoy the music.  RV

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18 hours ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

Don't bother to level the granite plates

Now you tell me.😜

I did get the granite leveled. And, will work on level/tilt tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me to level to 8 inches above ear height, I think that is where I am off.

B

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On 11/15/2022 at 8:18 PM, GdnrBob said:

I should have posted sooner, but things seem to take more time these days.

In any case, I got the Treo CT's and installed them in the Main system.

First impressions:

The system seems more 'alive'/ 'present'.  Soundstage seems to be a bit more forward, too.

I also felt the speakers 'beaming' a bit more than I like.

Hence, I want to set them up from scratch. So, I found some granite surface plates that fit the Treo's nicely. Unfortunately, it means I need to do some room reworking. Not a biggy.

I, also, think I need John Rutan and Samir to come over and recalibrate the Sub 3's. 

(I initially put them on some Townshend Bars, but the bass never seemed quite right. They are now on their pins/cones and things sound a little better, but I think having them recalibrated would be the best way to go.- And, I can see if Johnny can give me some temporary 'tweaks' to enhance the bass when I want to give it a bit more 'oomph'. without messing everything up).

 

I really should try to do this myself, as I would like to help @ctsooner, and @dsisssup calibrate their speakers.

bob

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On 11/15/2022 at 8:18 PM, GdnrBob said:

I should have posted sooner, but things seem to take more time these days.

In any case, I got the Treo CT's and installed them in the Main system.

First impressions:

The system seems more 'alive'/ 'present'.  Soundstage seems to be a bit more forward, too.

I also felt the speakers 'beaming' a bit more than I like.

Hence, I want to set them up from scratch. So, I found some granite surface plates that fit the Treo's nicely. Unfortunately, it means I need to do some room reworking. Not a biggy.

I, also, think I need John Rutan and Samir to come over and recalibrate the Sub 3's. 

(I initially put them on some Townshend Bars, but the bass never seemed quite right. They are now on their pins/cones and things sound a little better, but I think having them recalibrated would be the best way to go.- And, I can see if Johnny can give me some temporary 'tweaks' to enhance the bass when I want to give it a bit more 'oomph'. without messing everything up).

 

I really should try to do this myself, as I would like to help @ctsooner, and @dsisssup calibrate their speakers.

bob

 

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@Stringreen,

For SS, Ayre MXR/KXR- non Twenty

For Tubes,  Atmasphere MA-1/MP-1 (basically stock).

Innuos Zen and Brinkmann Nyquist 2 for streaming.

 

I finally got some time to set things up. Granite Blocks in place, Leica Disto got the Treo's dialed in at 8".

Things are sounding great again. I had to add some washers to the rear spike to get it at the right level.

 

It amazes me that such a minor change would affect overall sound reproduction. I mean, it was only a  degree off.

Anyhow, it sounds much better. I called John Rutan and will have him over to re-dial in the Sub 3's. Significant other has agreed to make a meal that will hopefully make the journey worth it. I will contribute to libations.

 

In any case, my first impressions are that the soundstage seems more forward with the CT's. As well as more clarity/resolution in the upper frequencies.

Mind you, I had the 3a sigs, then the Treo, and now the Treo CT. At each move, I noticed the soundstage come forward. Initially, it seemed to be behind the speakers, now it seems almost at the speaker, but 3D image is a little bit behind. - Hard to describe.

 

Bob

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Do you have the Vandersteen made slippers between the spikes and your granite blocks?  I found that not using them can cause what you describe with regard to front to back placement.

Plus…  With the more transparent tweeters, it’s often possible and tempting to crank up the volume more.  That can nudge the soundstage forward, too.

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And…  In the northeastern part of the country where a lot of us live, the weather changed from warm autumn to cold dry winter right around the time you upgraded speakers.  That matters.

Hsve you run one of those glide tone conditioning tracks since you changed things?  Part of the upgrade process involved moving the cables around, making new connections, and so on. 

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1 hour ago, BKDad said:

Do you have the Vandersteen made slippers between the spikes and your granite blocks?  I found that not using them can cause what you describe with regard to front to back placement.

Plus…  With the more transparent tweeters, it’s often possible and tempting to crank up the volume more.  That can nudge the soundstage forward, too.

Transparent as in lower distortion I think.
Ralph talks at length about how the loudness is perceived from the harmonics signature, and I am 100% convinced it is true.

Then his (Bob’s) new amps may further have a quietness to them which adds to the speakers not having nasty breakup modes that cause harshness.
It amazes me when a speaker sounds quiet, but one cannot hold a conversation because it is so loud.

It is a real problem with good equipment, but a good problem to have.

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The Treo CT's are in the main system downstairs.

Brinkmann Nyquist, Innuos Zen, Ayre KXR, Ayre MXR (non twenty's).

I dialed in everything with my Leica Disto, to the best of my abilities ( under 1 degree). And, things sound like they should. No more of that 'beaming' I was complaining about previously.

-Actually, very engaging...

 

The Atmasphere Class D's are ensconced in my office system upstairs.

Innuos Zen Mini/wLPS, Ayre QB-9 Twenty, Belles Aria Signature, Vandy VLR's with HSU subs.

The Atma's do seem to be more bass heavy than the Belles Aria monoblocks, which I find interesting.. 

But, overall, they do sound nice.

 

I want to put them in the main system, but that means I need to reset the Crossovers, and that means they need to settle in.-In order to make a fair judgement. Which means I won't have a clear reference point.

 

I want John Rutan and Samir to come and recalibrate the Sub 3's. Perhaps when he does so, I will add the Atma amps and see what happens.

Bob

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