Ayre QB-9 Twenty

[TomicTime]

Yes of course…many..Audioquest cables including Digital use DBS, 72 volts. The M5 and M7 amplifiers provide 128 V for both speaker wire and interconnects from AQ. ( be sure to have your dealer order them correctly ! )

Finally many but not all Vandersteen speakers also use battery bias in the crossovers….because it works !

Why wait hours for cables to “ form “ and sound good ?

[TomicTime]

This a photo of the DBS system in a Model 7 crossover….. IF this was a minor impact to sonics would anyone go to these lengths ?…..

[BKDad]

1 hour ago, TomicTime said:

Why wait hours for cables to “ form “ and sound good ?

My experience/observation is that film capacitors continue to change for weeks after DC bias is applied to them.  Yeah - weeks.  So far, Teflon caps have taken the longest.  It makes me wonder about printed circuit boards.  I wish I could figure out how to measure this.

Every AQ cable I've owned with DBS came already charged.  When I changed out the old Carbon DBS packs in favor of the newer DBS Level X packs, it took about a day for the sound to settle down.  But, the Level X packs bettered the Carbon packs in terms of sound quality.  I can't explain why, so I won't even try to.

It seems likely that both cables and caps used in crossovers and high pass filters need a while to charge the dielectric properly.  Shipping time on a truck and time sitting in a storeroom probably count toward that  (Shipping from my own factory to the listening room is about 45 seconds - definitely not enough.)

[Holmz]

So interconnects do not have problem?

[TomicTime]

yes interconnects and everything else that emulates a capacitor has a “ problem “….  So to “ fix “ use FEP or air or teflon or beeswax saturated cotton ( like MG wiring )…. or use DBS, or use a very good diaelectric  AND DBS

Just kidding about the beeswax….but not the MG…

In preamps and amps, the Teflon caps that Audio Research use are pretty squirrelly sounding for the first couple hundred hours…. i suppose there is breakin and then fully formed….

Edited March 8, 2022 by TomicTime

[Richard Vandersteen]

1 hour ago, BKDad said:

My experience/observation is that film capacitors continue to change for weeks after DC bias is applied to them.  Yeah - weeks.  So far, Teflon caps have taken the longest.  It makes me wonder about printed circuit boards.  I wish I could figure out how to measure this.

Every AQ cable I've owned with DBS came already charged.  When I changed out the old Carbon DBS packs in favor of the newer DBS Level X packs, it took about a day for the sound to settle down.  But, the Level X packs bettered the Carbon packs in terms of sound quality.  I can't explain why, so I won't even try to.

It seems likely that both cables and caps used in crossovers and high pass filters need a while to charge the dielectric properly.  Shipping time on a truck and time sitting in a storeroom probably count toward that  (Shipping from my own factory to the listening room is about 45 seconds - definitely not enough.)

DC bias basically helps form the capacitance but the AC signal also has a forming effect.  So the DC bias helps keep the capacitance where music left it last.  RV

[BKDad]

1 hour ago, Holmz said:

So interconnects do not have problem?

I'm not sure where you got that.  I hope not from me.  The capacitance inside an interconnect cable has to support the electric field between the conductors.  No way that I know to get around that.  Using vacuum as an insulator almost certainly would be ideal, but kinda tough from a pragmatic perspective.

If you want to try to build some interconnects with very low capacitance and foamed dielectric, VH Audio sells some pretty nice cabling and individual insulated wire that could be made into cabling.  I supposed you could even add your own DBS system to wiring like this, too.

[BKDad]

13 minutes ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

DC bias basically helps form the capacitance but the AC signal also has a forming effect.  So the DC bias helps keep the capacitance where music left it last.  RV

So, Vandersteen Audio really needs to attach a battery powered radio or something like that to all the speakers leaving the shop for the trip to the customer's?

I'm attempting to get the materials scientist in the family to research this and explain it all to me.  For some reason, she doesn't give a high priority to this over other interests.  Like her job, for example.

Edited March 8, 2022 by BKDad

[Holmz]

1 hour ago, BKDad said:

I'm not sure where you got that.  I hope not from me.  The capacitance inside an interconnect cable has to support the electric field between the conductors.  No way that I know to get around that.  Using vacuum as an insulator almost certainly would be ideal, but kinda tough from a pragmatic perspective.

I read the AQ paper a while ago.
I thought it was like cross over distortions but in this case it was the capacitance, and dielectric, changing as the polarity changed.

 

1 hour ago, BKDad said:

If you want to try to build some interconnects with very low capacitance and foamed dielectric, VH Audio sells some pretty nice cabling and individual insulated wire that could be made into cabling.  I supposed you could even add your own DBS system to wiring like this, too.

I see they have 28 ga silver and cotton. Maybe I should try that for interconnects?
The cotton should not have to “form”… ??

Their speaker cable reminds me of Kimber stuff.

[Richard Vandersteen]

1 hour ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

DC bias basically helps form the capacitance but the AC signal also has a forming effect.  So the DC bias helps keep the capacitance where music left it last.  RV

-Correction -Should have written; so the DC bias helps keep the formed capacitance .................

RV

[ctsooner]

I'll jump in if I may.  I have the 72V packs on my cables and cords. I don't have it built into my M5 as mine just missed that upgrade I believe.  Is it potentially worth it to upgrade to the newest X Packs?  If so, I'll have to figure out how much it is to do.  I'm also going to audition Richards stock cord for the amps vs the Hurricane's I'm running.  When I casually did this about a year ago, I didn't hear a huge difference, but wasn't able to fully follow it through as I didn't have anyone to help me out.  I'd love to be able to use his cables as they are so much easier to router, but whenever I've heard the Hurricane cords or Dragon's on front end gear is made a large positive difference, but Richard's amp designs aren't affected nearly as much as other top amps I've auditioned in stores.  

Great thread and thanks for the links to all who have shared.  It's fun learning more about why I like or dislike or am neutral on things.  Thanks. Pete 

[Holmz]

On 3/8/2022 at 8:21 AM, Bruskie said:

@Holmz

…

No I don't use ROON or know how to use it. I'm simply using CDs ripped to AIFF files in  iTunes on my MacBook Pro, with a USB C to Micro USB cord into the MOJO.  If I get a better DAC I will probably expand into streaming and ROON.

Bruce

 

I ordered the Octo Research DAC8 Pro, which is an 8 channel DAC.

They do a 2 channel version, and there is a review here:  https://www.stereophile.com/content/okto-dac8-stereo-da-processor

I do not have any opinion or experience with it.
However if one likes measurement specs… then it is at the top of the list.
 

(Sorry - but I cannot work in “defenestration”, a Kafka quote, nor Jan Hus.)

[TomicTime]

There is besides a wicked good sense of humor a “ measure “ and “ listen “ switch on the Ayre QB-9…..

I wonder why ?

[nrenter]

1 hour ago, TomicTime said:

There is besides a wicked good sense of humor a “ measure “ and “ listen “ switch on the Ayre QB-9…..

I wonder why ?

https://www.stereophile.com/content/ayre-acoustics-qb-9-usb-dac-measurements

[TomicTime]

it was a bit of snark, forgive me….  Charlie poking the measurements crowd….

[Holmz]

4 hours ago, nrenter said:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/ayre-acoustics-qb-9-usb-dac-measurements

Figure 3 (listen) looks better to my good eye,

 

4 hours ago, TomicTime said:

it was a bit of snark, forgive me….  Charlie poking the measurements crowd….

You called? 🙄

[Holmz]

4 hours ago, nrenter said:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/ayre-acoustics-qb-9-usb-dac-measurements

Some of those asymmetric filters do great in the frequency domain, but the pre ringing it clearly seen in the time domain. This is a potential problem in the time domain that step function response, and impulse response clearly show.

[nrenter]

To me, there's something just right about the Ayre digital sound. I still recall the first CD I dropped into my CX-7e. I had gravitated away from digital and really only bought the CX-7e to complete my AX-7e / P-5xe stack. I was extremely familiar with the first disk I played, and within seconds I thought, "Wow...this is different (compelling)". I'm very interested in what the Twenty upgrade to the QB-9 will bring (even though I wouldn't say I'm completely familiar with the QB-9 DSD sound signature).

[ctsooner]

Heard the updated QX5/20 is much better than it was and it was darn good. 

[TomicTime]

time and phase kind get trashed by pre ring…. Charlie didn’t go to ALL that trouble to eliminate negative feedback only to throw it all away in the filters…..

[GdnrBob]

1 hour ago, ctsooner said:

Heard the updated QX5/20 is much better than it was and it was darn good. 

When I had the QB9 upgraded to Twenty status, I asked Ariel  the differences between the two DAC's with regard to sound quality, he seemed to feel they were pretty close to one another.

B

[ctsooner]

12 hours ago, GdnrBob said:

When I had the QB9 upgraded to Twenty status, I asked Ariel  the differences between the two DAC's with regard to sound quality, he seemed to feel they were pretty close to one another.

B

Interesting. It’s all personal perspective. I’d love to hear them both vs each other. I’d be surprised if the new upgrade that was JUsT released didn’t make a big difference. Johnny certainly feels it has. Would need to hear both, but the 9 was great in it’s time and the upgrades were a rebuild. It should sound great. 

[BKDad]

My understanding, based on the Pints With Ayre YouTube series and various forum comments made by Ryan Berry, is that the QB-9 Twenty is a kind of amalgam of the conversion and analog circuitry from the QX-8 - minus the headphone amp and volume control, of course - and the USB circuitry from the updated QX-5.  Apparently the QB-9 Twenty was the test mule for the new QX-5 USB board.

The QB-9 Twenty obviously isn't as versatile as either QX-8 or the QX-5.  Nor does it have the fancier ESS DAC chip and clocks of the QX-5.  It's a one trick pony.  But, it does that one trick pretty well in my estimation.

It's nice to have choices.

[ctsooner]

1 hour ago, BKDad said:

My understanding, based on the Pints With Ayre YouTube series and various forum comments made by Ryan Berry, is that the QB-9 Twenty is a kind of amalgam of the conversion and analog circuitry from the QX-8 - minus the headphone amp and volume control, of course - and the USB circuitry from the updated QX-5.  Apparently the QB-9 Twenty was the test mule for the new QX-5 USB board.

The QB-9 Twenty obviously isn't as versatile as either QX-8 or the QX-5.  Nor does it have the fancier ESS DAC chip and clocks of the QX-5.  It's a one trick pony.  But, it does that one trick pretty well in my estimation.

It's nice to have choices.

Thanks for sharing BK. That makes the most sense. Heck, the Codex was the test mule for the QX5/20.  It’s still a killer for under 2k. 

[GdnrBob]

A used Codex is now under $1K.- Which is pretty amazing considering it's performance.

 

And, I was unaware of the new software upgrade. My comments were based upon a conversation I had last year, so things might have changed significantly since then.

B