Ayre QB-9 Twenty

[nrenter]

On 3/12/2022 at 5:04 PM, nrenter said:

Oh, man…I’m really hoping my upgrade takes less than 4 months. 

Laughing at my post….now 6 months and still waiting. 

[BKDad]

Life is hard out there in electronic manufacturing land.  

I know guys at companies who are busy redesigning everything because certain parts have stupid long lead times.  Then, by the time they get done with the redesign, the newly designed in parts are now unavailable, even though the supplier told them what parts to use.

it’s especially hard with parts like processors and FPGAs that are programmed.  Replacing those parts might require redoing the programming.

Most audio companies don’t have the buying power and leverage that large companies do.  Nor do they have the same engineering resources, either.

Tough business.  I feel for them.  That doesn’t help you, though.  Sorry…

[nrenter]

Yeah…it’s had an impact on their production. Ayre had to find a suitable replacement for a few components in their circuit design in order for the board manufacturer to complete their kits. As of a week or so ago, they finally received their parts. Hopefully I’m 4 weeks or so from receiving my toy. It’s a first-world problem (for me). I’m patient. I have plenty of things (e.g. work) to keep me busy.  But like you, I feel for them. 

[GdnrBob]

Wow, I would call Ayre and ask Ryan what is going on. Though it is probably a part shortage, considering the current situation. In which case, I would be somewhat understanding. Though I do feel for you.😬

Bob

[ctsooner]

Everyone I know in the industry has a parts shortage. BK nailed it.  I know a company who makes digital audio players for headphones who had to change their chip company as they used AK chips and their fire made every design of theirs unable to be produced.  They did is quickly and I've been told by a review I'm close to that the new DAP is much better than their other designs.  That's telling to me.  Great engineering is great engineering.  

[nrenter]

3 hours ago, GdnrBob said:

Wow, I would call Ayre and ask Ryan what is going on. Though it is probably a part shortage, considering the current situation. In which case, I would be somewhat understanding. Though I do feel for you.😬

I’ve been in touch with them monthly. They’ve been very responsive and transparent. Other than the circumstances, I really have nothing to complain about. 

[BKDad]

Think of it this way...

Just what do they have to gain by not delivering?

I suppose that they could keep the money and sell the gear, but that doesn't seem like a great long term business plan, either as a company or for them personally.

Big guys in the electronic industry have been big on squeezing their vendors down in price each and every purchase.  That has often driven the suppliers to consolidate to survive and to move production offshore to one or two very large factories.  But, when there is a glitch in the factories, look what happens.  

It turns out that the AKM fire didn't just affect audio gear.  AKM makes chips used in all sorts of products.  A lot of these parts don't even say AKM on them - they are just the fab producing the wafers.  AKM's misfortune had a large ripple effect throughout the industry.  But, that's what can happen when you rely on just a couple manufacturing facilities.

A few years back there was another fire at a factory somewhere between Australia and China - I just can't remember where.  May have been Singapore.  That one also caused all sorts of shortages in the semiconductor market.  This factory made epoxy glue used in transistor and IC packaging.  So, whenever any part of the chain has a problem, it affects everybody.

Closer to home, there was the fire at Apollo Masters.  Look at how that affected the record biz.

Historically, this has been happening on and off for more than a century.  The world flattens and then doesn't when the disadvantages outweigh the advantages and somebody can profit from that change.  I'm sure our resident economist could offer a better explanation.

But, yeah - none of this helps you get your QB-9 Twenty.

[ctsooner]

So well put.BK.  I wonder if AKM will be able to rebuild.  Heard the fire took out everything and that they have to basically start all over again. So sad.

 Guys, Ryan and Ayre are like Richard in that they care.  They are a great bunch of guys who happen to be audio nerds and design incredible gear.  Their new business model seems to be upgrading their older units, but they are about to release some new higher end gear.  I'm sure that's on hold now until the shortages loosen up.

[GdnrBob]

12 hours ago, ctsooner said:

 Guys, Ryan and Ayre are like Richard in that they care.

In the few interactions with Ayre, Ryan and Ariel have been most forthcoming with honest information. 

Add to that, when I had to send equipment back for repair, the charges were quite reasonable. I mean very reasonable.

It is one of the more satisfying parts of dealing with companies like Ayre, Atmasphere, and Vandersteen.

@nrenter, As I said, I really feel your pain. But, as @BKDad wrote, if a component becomes unavailable, it might necessitate a design redo.-Which would entail a longer than desired wait.

Fingers crossed.

Bob

[nrenter]

On 9/7/2022 at 7:09 PM, nrenter said:

Laughing at my post….now 6 months and still waiting. 

Still laughing at my post...now 9 months and still waiting.

[BKDad]

Based on Pavel's analysis (Pavel's analysis) I bought a Topping D10s a couple months back for use as a lab signal source.  Indeed, it really has low distortion and works as he says.

Topping d10s

They also have balanced version, if that floats your boat:

Topping d10b

Does it sound as good as our QB-9 Twenty?  NO!  But, it may be better than just looking at your loudspeakers instead of listening to them.  At least it's not very expensive.

Side note:  I found that adding a suitable USB isolation system made a big difference, just as PMA did.  Analog Devices has a great new chip for this application and the evaluation board is very reasonably priced.  It's not in a fancy cabinet, of course, but it works well.  Plus, it runs at full USB 2.0 speeds unlike a lot of other isolators.

ADI USB Isolator

I power this, and therefore the DAC, with a linear wall wart supply that I bought from Jameco.

Jameco 5VDC supply

One last thing...  This isolator makes a real improvement in the QB-9 Twenty's performance, too.  With a Curious Evolved Regen Link 200mm cable between the isolator and the QB-9, things are sounding pretty great.  Not to rub it in, but you have something to look forward to.

[nrenter]

Thanks. I still have plenty of silver and black disks to spin...my Mac mini and Roon / Tidal subscriptions just aren't getting much love. If the upgrade won't be complete before Santa is scheduled to arrive, I'll probably ask him to bring me something temporary.

[GdnrBob]

8 hours ago, nrenter said:

Still laughing at my post...now 9 months and still waiting.

Dayum! Now, I would be getting pissy. 

They have my QB-9 Twenty, too. I was going to sell it but suddenly the display went wonky and wouldn't power on correctly. There seems to be a new guy, Jake Forsythe, who is front man for repair. He did say he was going to report back before T'day, but I still have to hear back.

Hopefully, this isn't a sign of major issues.

Bob

[Holmz]

10 hours ago, BKDad said:

Based on Pavel's analysis (Pavel's analysis) I bought a Topping D10s a couple months back for use as a lab signal source.  Indeed, it really has low distortion and works as he says.

Topping d10s

They also have balanced version, if that floats your boat:

Topping d10b

Does it sound as good as our QB-9 Twenty?  NO!  But, it may be better than just looking at your loudspeakers instead of listening to them.  At least it's not very expensive.

Side note:  I found that adding a suitable USB isolation system made a big difference, just as PMA did.  Analog Devices has a great new chip for this application and the evaluation board is very reasonably priced.  It's not in a fancy cabinet, of course, but it works well.  Plus, it runs at full USB 2.0 speeds unlike a lot of other isolators.

ADI USB Isolator

I power this, and therefore the DAC, with a linear wall wart supply that I bought from Jameco.

Jameco 5VDC supply

One last thing...  This isolator makes a real improvement in the QB-9 Twenty's performance, too.  With a Curious Evolved Regen Link 200mm cable between the isolator and the QB-9, things are sounding pretty great.  Not to rub it in, but you have something to look forward to.

 

I got the RME ADI 2 Pro, which seems similar.

I swear I ordered a USB isolator, but maybe not.

Is there an equivalent, similar in concept, thing for the ethernet side?
I am thinking for the TV and AVP.
The AVP only has a wired ethernet connection, no WiFI .

[BKDad]

9 hours ago, Holmz said:

Is there an equivalent, similar in concept, thing for the ethernet side?
I am thinking for the TV and AVP.
The AVP only has a wired ethernet connection, no WiFI .

There seems to be a lot of those around.  How well they work beats me.  We don’t use Ethernet anywhere in the audio/video system, so I’ve never tried one.  WiFi has its downsides, but at least it doesn’t add more current leakage paths.  Plus, we’re not streaming audio enthusiasts - no statement there on our part, just a preference.

TP-Link, amongst others, sells inexpensive fiber optic links that certainly isolate.  They usually call them RJ-45 Media Converters.  Lots of choices there.  I do know guys who find them to work well in their audio systems.

[Sbank]

@nrenter Any happy ending yet to your wait and the results?

[winnor]

Does anyone here have any experience with the Wavelength usb spacelator + Ayre qb9 20?

I purchased an Ayre QB9 about ten years ago, and after 21 years of upgrading I became a QB9-Twenty user.
I am in the process of contacting Wavelength Audio to purchase a USB Spacelator in order to improve the sound quality of my USB DAC.
My audio path:
Macmini m2+Jriver+local music files (sacd iso based)----Supra usb cable----Ayre QB9 Twenty----Preamp----Active Monitors

Edited January 14 by winnor

[GdnrBob]

4 hours ago, winnor said:

Does anyone here have any experience with the Wavelength usb spacelator + Ayre qb9 20?

Funny, I bought one, but have yet to install it. Maybe I will do it today.

B

[BKDad]

We've been using a USB Spacelator here for, jeez, probably more than a year now.

Sounds great - less filling.  A very worthwhile improvement, at least here.  Hardly subtle.

FWIW, I've gotten best results by using Curious Evolved USB Cables between the server and the Spacelator and between the Spacelator and the QB-9 Twenty.  The one between the Spacelator and the DAC is the more critical of the two.   There I use the 200 mm variant.  Very nice, at what I think is a fair price compared to what's out there.

BTW, I've found that most USB cables are, ahh, sub-optimal.  The price doesn't matter.  Cheap ones just sound differently inferior than the expensive ones.  For anyone interested, I can provide a link to a technical article or two that explains why.  TL;DR summary: Lack of true balance between the data carrying wires and the powering wires and shield causes common mode to normal mode noise conversion.  It can even be measured.  That was probably, TL, too...

[ctsooner]

I’m not sure this is the right place to put this, but I have tried the Waversa EXT 1, HDMI and now own the EXT Ref isolator for my Ethernet connection to streamer.  It’s an amazing device to say the least.  I like it much better than all the optical isolation devices I’ve tried over the years (too many and it included hospital filters).  

I also use their Uber short cables and they too are amazing for what they do (Yes, I’ve installed longer Wireworld 7 Ethernet cables to hear the difference and the short ones sound MUCH better.  Kind of like speaker cables)

[Sbank]

I purchased a used QB9 DSD Twenty about a month ago. It replaced a Denafrips Pontus II. At the time I was concerned it might have been a sideways move. Of course going from a R2R dac to the Ayre much is subjective and a matter of personal preference, but I'm really engaged and drawn to listen more every time I listen.  It's natural with little signature of it's own.
Yeah, it's a one-trick pony with USB input, but if you have a source optimized for USB output, it punches above its class.

This is from a mainly vinyl listener. Really pleased with the Ayre.  It delivers great performance at its price.

FWIW, rest of the system is:

Vandersteen 5As w/ balanced filters
Krell FBP-300
VAC Renaissance V w/phono stage
Small Green Computer SonicTransporter
Sonore opticalRendu & LPS
Sota Nova VI turntable, Audiomods VI arm, Dynavector XX2Mk2
AQ1200, Furman P/C
AQ, Tel Wire & Inakustik cables
 

[GdnrBob]

Good to hear about the QB9 Twenty. I owned that and the Codex, and found they perform much higher than their price point.

B

[ctsooner]

Guys, I have to say all teh Waversa products I've used have been amazing to say the least.  I am using the Waversa EXT ethernet Ref unit full time. I can't take it out as the music sounds too..... digital. I find it harsh without it now and I LOVE my DAC.  I also have an extra EXT1 that I installed directly in front of it and it made it sound even better.  I have a buddy who's on this site who has the 7's and Sub 9's who got the EXT Ref Plus (4 ref units in one chassis) and thanked me.  

I installed the EXT for HDMI for my LG OLED TV and I was in shock.  My wife just shook her head when she saw the colors and the sharper detail etc...  It obviously is getting rid of all the trash on the line.  I have the streamer in house and will report back on that too.  My buddy John is the distributor of WAversa and Allnic and is a great and honorable guy.  I've shared his products with a few dealers and only one has picked up the line.  They have been selling their EXT units with most of the DAC's they are selling and doing great with them.  I hope some of the other dealers decide to pick up the line as they know what they are doing for sure.  

When you have to be all digital, it's worth it to get the best sound you can.

As for Ayre, Jake is a great guy and upfront.  I just hoep the company can go from 'upgrade' out older stuff to getting all their new gear on the market (they are woking on some really nice new pieces and a product upgrade of what they are currently selling).  They really need to go back to selling leather than upgrading.  That's the only business model that will work for them I believe.

[BKDad]

1 hour ago, ctsooner said:

Guys, I have to say all teh Waversa products I've used

Do you know which country the patent for these products has been issued in?  I tried a search on the company and the inventor with no luck.  I wanted to try to understand a little bit about the technology because the marketing material is somewhat, ahh, vague.

[ctsooner]

It’s South  Korean, but not sure if that’s where the parents are. The EXT1&2 use different tech than the Reference and the plus. I believe they are using a magnetic field in the Ref unit, but yes they are vague. Whatever it is, it sure works and it lowers the noise floor lower than any of the other boxes I’ve tried as well as the optical isolators I’ve tried