Model 1 to Model 2Ce Signature III?

[Richard Vandersteen]

One bag of sand is enough.  Be sure to install the spikes before filling the stand with sand and use house hold silicone on the rear end cap as a sealant so it won't leak sand.

RV

[Boom Boom]

44 minutes ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

One bag of sand is enough.  Be sure to install the spikes before filling the stand with sand and use house hold silicone on the rear end cap as a sealant so it won't leak sand.

RV

Will put in my shopping list.

Very grateful. Thanks so much.  🙂

[Steve Edwards]

You're in for a real treat!  Please keep us posted on your observations

[Boom Boom]

I installed the bases (well sorta).

First hurdle to overcome was one of the front spike holes in one of the stands was too tight. The spike would not thread in very deeply. I decided to try some WD40. I patiently lubricated the threads and screwed them in then out. Each time in I would try a little deeper. I got to the point where the spike would screw in and out reasonably, which will be important for adjusting tilt.

Filling the bases with sand and sealing with silicone went well. To transfer the sand I used a plastic cool whip container. I could bend the sides and make  it narrower at the pour edge. With each pour I picked up and shook the base to make sure it settled on the front cross member. Sand spillage was very manageable. Silicone was easy. I squeezed a small bead around the circumference in the center of the cap threads and spread out a bit using parchment paper. Excess silicone that flowed out was quickly wiped away.

The real problem came with installing the bases to the speakers. I currently have them spiked into a coin on top of thick old college text books. I have sound anchor spike casters I will install later. One base went fine. The other base, well ... One of the mounting bolts when finally clearing the tight hole in the base, would just spin. It wasn't even making contact with the washer. I decided to try using Teflon tape to thicken the threads. It took 3-4 layers of Teflon tape before the bolt head would at least touch the washer, but it was still loose. When it came time to right side the speaker, guess which end came out? I had to put the speaker back upside down and apply more Teflon tape 2 layers. The bolt stopped spinning and I got it to touch the washer. It was still fairly loose. I was able to right side the speaker. I noticed the bolt hung down not touching the washer. I used a wrench to screw it into the hole. I decided to place a coin between the spike and the book. When I pushed the speaker to tilt and lift the front right spike I noticed the right front side of the speaker detached and the bolt was hanging. I tilted the speaker at the base and got the coin in. I again took a wrench to screw the bolt into the hole.

I rewired the speakers to the amp and continue the burn in process. The Vanderstands on my old 2Cs were a lot less hassle and much easier to reliably install.

So disappointed in the hardware and fitment for the 2Ce Signature III base to the bottom of the speaker. I really didn't like how tight the holes were in the base for the mounting screws. I don't understand this. The bolts are supposed to thread into the bottom of the speaker, not through the pass through holes in the base. That's why you use the washers between the bolt head and the metal base. Is there something that can be done to have this corrected so the that speaker has a base that properly mounts? Perhaps under warranty? Does Vandersteen have different thread bolts for me to try?

Thanks for reading this.

[Boom Boom]

Hi

It's late but I resolved the speaker base issue. I removed the base I was having issues with. I tested the mounting bolt and verify it was the right thread for the speaker. The real problem was the bolt was not deep enough. I tried removing the metal washer between the bolt head and the metal base. I tried making a paper washer but it deteriorated when I tightened the thread. So without the washer the bolt was able to catch the threads on the bottom of the speaker. So far it seems secure.

Thanks

[Richard Vandersteen]

We buy these Bases from a vender and have had some quality control problems with the indexing of the mounting block the bolts go through.  Call the  factory and they will send you a 1/4X20X1.75 bolt which is 1/4 inch longer.  This will solve the problem and allow you to use the washer again.  Sorry for this inconvenience .

RV

[TomicTime]

Boom Boom - sorry for hassle, i  am in South Seattle if you need a second set of hands or ears 😉

[Boom Boom]

I contacted Vandersteen. New longer bolts are on the way (check's in the mail?). Will wait for them to arrive and install before I start fussing with toe and tilt. 2Ce Signature III's still breaking in. My new cables will take a while. In my experience Transparents have a long break in period. The system sounds better than when I first fired the new speakers up. That's not saying too much other than the break in is starting.

I installed my new Shunyata power cords today. My Delta NR V2s came in yesterday. I moved out my Harmonic Technology cords and plan to use in the second system with Linn electronics. The new Shunyata power cords take not as long to break in. I got HRS Nimbus vibration control for the Bryston DAC. I installed them on my current PS Audio NuWave DSD. I moved the Audioquest sorbo feet under the CD players. My Bryston is delayed due to chip shortage and Covid delays in Canada. It's my last upgrade that's still pending.

Tomic, I'd rather have you over for a listen after things settle in.

-Robert

[ctsooner]

Great stuff and thanks for sharing.  Happy for you.  Pics when you have them?? 

[Steve Edwards]

Robert, curious about the Audioquest sorbo feet under your CD players; any noticeable improvement?  In my very limited understanding of electronics, it seems vibrational energy would be highest in disc players, thus achieving more benefit from isolation devices than other components in the system. 

[TomicTime]

Robert 🙂 Sounds like you have this well in hand.  ++++++ on HRS Nimbus, love them……

[ctsooner]

I've told Brad a few times that once I get my digital play back in order, I'm going to focus on an HRS platform for the server/streamer first.  When I get a preamp, I'll do that afterwards if I can afford one, lol.

[TomicTime]

my Naim server greatly benefits from Nimbus under and an HRS damping plate on top…..

[ctsooner]

I may just pick up a damping plate for my server.  Do you use the platforms with Richards amps?  Plates?  

[TomicTime]

Pete - No the HPA internals hang from built in HRS dampers so they are decoupled from external vibration, the top covers are carbon fiber , no need for damping… I have not seen what technique RV use in the more affordable M5. i will post an amp picture 

[TomicTime]

the blue donuts are HRS i believe…

[ctsooner]

wow, how cool.  That's just typical of Richard.  All the tech is where is has to be and it's all hidden.  He never mentions it, but it's there.  I too wonder what the 5 has in it that's hidden away. lol.

[Boom Boom]

Longer bolts arrived in the mail today. They were installed after work. What a difference proper sized mounting bolts make! I'm happy with my Vandersteen bases now. Still waiting for Transparents to break in. After tomorrow will have 240 hours on them. Break in coming along. Typical changes in sound: Thin trebbly sound when first hooked up. Frequency response starts to fill in, but sound is two dimensional. Some detail is starting to emerge and bass response is starting to fill in. What's missing is the bloom and sound expansion that my system normally has. I noticed that the noise floor has gone down. Likely due to the new Shunyata Delta NR V2s. Those don't take too long to break in. New ones are on the DAC and the Power Amp. Preamp was the first component to try one of these on. Very good results, decided I wanted more.

Steve Edwards - haven't spent too much time listening to CDs. My Rotel 991AE used to have the HRS Nimbus pucks beneath. I swapped them to my Classe preamp with the top plate. HRS pucks and top plates were made to work together. I am using the little feet on the Rotel and it has the nice float of the image you get with good vibration control. I like listening to the Amee Mann Lost in Space CD to evaluate for this. Can't really comment on the big feet I moved to the Classe CD player. Previously, I only used the HRS top plate on it. The Delta CDP100 uses special rubber feet. I think Classe's Delta series all do. The AQ big feet lifted the factory feet off the shelf. There's too many things going on in my living room system. I swapped my Shunyata Delta NR cord (V1?) in and removed a Harmonic Tech Pro11 AC. That improved the treble on CD. My XLR cables between amp and pre and bi-wire cables are still breaking in. Can only reserve any comments on sonic changes after these key cables finish burn in. Like many things, vibration control devices either work well or don't. Try some if you can to see if they improve sound for you. Maybe you can borrow some? The Rotel CD player has terrible factory feet. Placing it directly on the shelf, I lose the image float, articulation and solid placement of the performers. This CD player works well with the ProAC 11 power cord. I'm using this setup with My Vandersteen 1Cs and Linn Majik amp and pre. In the living room I was tuning placement of some new HRS pucks and top plate for my Moon W5 power amp when my friend took away the old 2C's. I'll continue evaluating placement after the cables burn in.

-Robert

[Steve Edwards]

Robert, thank you for the comprehensive reply.  One more question:  on your disc players, do you place the chassis directly onto the pucks, or the factory feet onto the pucks?  I currently have my Oppo BDP-105's factory feet sitting on Mapleshade Isoblocks.   It seems controlling the vibration would be more effective with the former.

Play on

[Boom Boom]

7 hours ago, Steve Edwards said:

Robert, thank you for the comprehensive reply.  One more question:  on your disc players, do you place the chassis directly onto the pucks, or the factory feet onto the pucks?  I currently have my Oppo BDP-105's factory feet sitting on Mapleshade Isoblocks.   It seems controlling the vibration would be more effective with the former.

Play on

Steve I don't have experience with the Mapleshade Isoblocks. The vibration control devices I have tried are supposed to couple directly to the chassis not the component feet. I would suggest if the blocks are tall enough to lift the factory feet off the shelf, placing them directly between the CD player chassis and the shelf. See which sounds better.

Cheers!

-Robert

[ctsooner]

Most of teh wood isolation devices are made to couple to the chassis and not the feet.  I use the Ayre myrtle ones.

[Steve Edwards]

Boom Boom and ctsooner, thank you guys.  It is as I suspected.

[ctsooner]

I'd love to know if you can hear a difference.  I hear a slight difference for the better (noise floor), but very slight when it's under my server/DAC.  The case on it isn't dealing with vibrations, so it does help when I use footers under it and probably should get a plate from HRS Systems.  

[Boom Boom]

Well, everything is pretty much settled in. I haven't done much critical listening as I normally would as I've been watching the Olympics. During commercials I played some tracks from the 2xHD Audiophile Hi-Res System Test and Audiophile speaker setup recordings. They were sounding really good. I finally did something I love doing with my Vandersteens. I used citrus oil polish to oil the cherry wood veneers. This makes brings out the nice patterns in the grain and gives a nice luster to the wood.

I read the setup guidance in the owner's manual and decided on what dimensions to use for tilt. I kept the speakers at least 2 feet away from side and back walls. I had a tight spike in the left rear base. I ended up inverting the speakers to loosen the spikes. WD40 came in handy for the tight spike. I had to lower the back spikes as the front cross members deeper. As when demonstrated at Definitive, they don't need much toe in. Tilt and toe adjustments didn't take terribly long.

2Ce Signature III speaker impressions: The highs are clearer, easier to listen to. I was expecting this. Vandersteen went to lower distortion ceramic dampened aluminum tweeters a while ago. The 2Cs had silk domes. The 1Cs I own also use the ceramic dampened aluminum tweeters. To test the integration between the tweeter and midrange drivers, I played some tracks of male opera arias. This was tricky for the 2Cs. I had to adjust the driver output levels in the back. The 2Ce Signature IIIs don't have these. The recordings were reproduced effortlessly. I was hoping this would also be an improvement. I was happy that it was. A pleasant surprise was improvements in the bass. To my ears it sounds faster more detailed. The timbre is improved so it is easier to hear distinctly the difference between the snare drum and the kick drum when they are struck simultaneously. 

The power cord upgrades have lowered the noise floor, improved treble clarity, overall top to bottom improvements. Gen 6 Transparent cables sound different from my old Gen 1's. I have to listen more to discern what's different. Details in instrumentation in the recordings is more revealed. It is easier to discern what guitar players are doing with their fingers on the strings. Synthesized keyboards have more articulate sound. The chords played are clearer. You can easily hear the notes in the chords.

Richard Vandersteen's help in resolving the base mounting bolt issues really reinforced my pride in owning my Vandersteens. These are so carefully designed and great care in quality control. I believe the 2's are still sold in matched stereo pairs. The tilt and toe adjustments were fun to putz with. The spikes settle into my Sound Anchor spike coasters I'm using to protect my wood floor.

Eventually I'll get around to posting pics. I'm still waiting for my new DAC to arrive. That'll be last upgrade for now.

Cheers!

[ctsooner]

thanks for sharing.  Great stuff.  So glad you are happy with your music and I'm sure the new DAC will also be a fun upgrade.  It's amazing what cables and cords can do if designed properly.  I too enjoy Transparent.  I use only AQ as it's what the Steen's use when being voiced etc, but there are some very good cables and cords on the market.