Your favorite DAC for your Vandersteens?

[mwgreene]

I was going to update an earlier post (2021) about the amp I'm using to power my Treos. Since the answer is related to this thread, I'll do it here. I just upgraded my Parasound a23+ amp to an Ayre VX-5 Twenty. Nothing fundamentally wrong at all with the Parasound but there were more revelations, sonic accuracy and timbral honestly available to me than I knew before. What I've come to understand is I really enjoy accuracy above all else. That starts with Vandersteen. obviously. Ayre power amp, Audible Illusions 3B pre-amp, Well-Tempered Classic deck, Sutherland Insight phono and Hana ML cartridge. Auralic Aries G1 streamer through a Benchmark 3B DAC. Everything wired up with Audioquest. I realize I'm standing on the welcome mat to the world of "Ultra- High End", but I'm not going through that doorway. Everything I listen to plays nice with each other because I believe they all share the same end goal of accuracy and sonic honesty. It mystifies me why more people don't have Benchmark DAC's...they're not "bright", they're accurate. Just like Vandersteens are not dark. Personally, I think I would stick to gear that recording studios use; Benchmark, RME or Weiss for example. (or Dcs if your ship came in). 

[Boom Boom]

On 5/24/2023 at 6:36 PM, olds1959special said:

Your favorite DAC for your Vandersteens?

What do you enjoy the most? Do you feel you need to use a revealing or bright DAC to offset the darkness of Vandersteens? If you want to mention the pre-amp you use too, please do.

I'm a bang for the buck guy. That's why I really like my Vandersteen 2's. I now own the 2CE Sig III's. I consider them my poor man's reference.

I've acquired a large collection of digital music files. I decided it was time to get a better DAC. A couple years ago I settled on the Bryston BDA3 for my living room. Listening to well recorded 4xDSD files, I really like the sound. It's the closest to analogue I've gotten without the surface noise. Eventually I'll compare my SOTA TT to high rez files. I haven't done this with the BDA3. the SOTA was superior to the NuWave DSD at 2xDSD. Having used PS Audio affordable DACs for both living and bedroom systems, I found the digital cables would improve the sound. For TOSLINK I've gotten best results with WireWorld Super Nova 7. For 75 Ohm SPDIF I get good results with my old Harmonic Technology digital RCA cables. For USB, I get good results with the Transparent Premium USB.

Regarding Vandersteens described as "Dark sounding", I had audio stores play them side by side with other speakers they described as not sounding dark. This didn't bother me as I listened holistically and found overall that the Vandersteens outperformed these others as they sounded more like what I hear when I attend a live performance. I intentionally will bring less than perfect recordings to component auditions as many in my collection are such. Many of the speakers the audio dealers like to push to customers would just murder these recordings. At least with my Vandersteens I can hear a little of what the recording engineers and mixers intended. My experience is that my Vandersteens came across as more forgiving and I could still enjoy these.

I've experienced firsthand what RV explained about Dark sounding. Long story short, after about a decade I decided to resurrect my turntable system. I replaced my cartridge which I shattered the jeweled cantilever and it was no longer manufactured. My old preamp started to have worse and worse RCA connector issues. I replaced it with a Classe Preamp. Power cords and power conditioners were now new components in the audiophile market. I bought and auditioned different brands. The Classe was sensitive to these. The first of these I bought made the music focus on the initial attack, the leading edge of the music. This made the music sound detailed and exciting but dark. I tried other products and found voltage stabilization and different designs in power cords also brought out the trailing edge and the harmonic decay was greatly improved. The "darkness" went away and again the Vandersteens quickly reflected the improvement.

The old PS Audio preamp went to create my bedroom system. I bought Vandersteen 1Cs for this system. The Transparent PowerBank Ultra conditioner that didn't work well with the Classe worked wonders with the PS Audio. It brought out a fullness that replaced comparatively thin sound. Eventually the High Current Power supply died. I replaced it with a Linn Majik level Preamp. The Linn is much more forgiving for digital music. This is where I started experimenting with DACs. Linn and Classe stopped making CD players because they achieved better sound with higher resolution digital files played through a stand alone DAC. I would get improved sound with each upgrade in DAC models as technology improved and trying different digital cables. My upgrades to power cables for my living room system brought improvements to the bedroom as I moved my former reference cables to the bedroom. The original power cords I gave to a friend who's not so fanatic about audio, but he was astonished as sound and picture improved in his audio video system over the stock cords.

That said, I've listened to the newer model Vandersteen models Treo and above. I would not describe these as "Dark".

[ctsooner]

it was in my final group, but I ended up getting a great deal on a demo Nyquist, that I went that direction. Wish I had both in at the same time, but I LOVE the Brinkmann.  Love it.

[atlvalet]

I don't want to step into anything I can't get out of (and I'm certainly no expert) but I get the "dark" comment. BUT, I also think it might be the wrong word to describe what some people hear/experience.

I don't know if it's a sensitivity thing or the fact some speakers pump up certain bands in the frequency range, but (especially) if you do a back-to-back with other speakers, the Vandersteens can sounds less "lively."

HOWEVER...Vandersteens are so ridiculously musical, does one even care about that? I owned a pair of 2Ci's for over 30 years (yikes, I'm getting old) and now have had a pair of 3A Signatures with 2WQ subs, and they are just pleasing to the ears. (The subs added A LOT in my opinion, which surprised me since the amp I was driving the 3A's with is no slouch...an Audio Research D400 mkii with brand new power caps).

With regards to DAC's, I'm not sure if it's worth it to debate architecture like Delta-Sigma vs R2R, but (without getting into a system matching rabbit hole) I think you'd want to find one that reproduces timbre accurately. That's what I liked about my Holo Audio Spring 2 (which I recently sold) and am looking forward to getting the Holo Audio May. Right now the Vandy's are powered by a refurbished/upgraded Sonic Frontiers SFD-mkii running those old school Ultra Analog DAC chips and it sounds great IMO.

For reference, I do have a set of more "lively" speakers next to my 3A's (mid-90's Genesis Technologies 700's) and those pairs HORRIBLY with my Gustard X26 Pro...the SFD-2 sounds much better with those speakers, so I put the Gustard back with my integrated tube amp and ProAcs in my office.

[olds1959special]

My MHDT Lab Havana R2R tube DAC is my favorite source component for my Vandies. If I had a tube pre-amp, I wouldn't need this, and would want a DAC without a tube. I was very impressed with a new delta-sigma DAC recently, but ultimately it was fatiguing to listen to. I'm curious how it would sound with a tube buffer, though.

Edited April 11 by olds1959special

[TomicTime]

Aesthetix Pandora - Signature running NOS Bugle Boys n Blackburn Mullards….

[TomicTime]

Pic is with other NOS from Andy at Vintage Tube services

[Gsal]

I'm using an Innuos Pulse Streamer and Denafrips Venus II DAC. Backert Labs Rumba 1.4 preamp and Aesthetix Atlas Eclipse amp. Quatro Wood CT's. Just had the Atlas upgraded to the Eclipse level from the Signature. Only got it back yesterday so it still needs a lot of break in time before I can comment. I think that the amp upgrade may be revealing more of the DAC's short-comings. The DAC in OS mode has it's pluses and it's minuses.  I'll need more time to know for sure. If that's the case, I'm leaning toward the Grimm Audio MU-2 as a solution rather than moving up the Denafrips line. It's highly regarded by people I respect.

Kudos to Andy at Vintage Tube Service. I use his product in my Aesthetix amp.

[ctsooner]

Rutan has been telling me all about the Grimm too. I really need to go listen to one.  

[GdnrBob]

So much said about Vandy's being 'dark'.

I think it is more about the fact they don't 'beam'.

 

9 hours ago, ctsooner said:

Rutan has been telling me all about the Grimm too.

I would love to hear your impressions, especially compared to the Memory Player.  As you know, I just got mine a few weeks ago, and the difference in sound quality was easily apparent when switching from the Innuos.

 

Bob

[ctsooner]

I’d be shocked if the streamer/server of the Grimm is as good.  I do want to go listen for many reasons.  I’ve heard from two others i trust that the Grimm DAC is very special and could go for twice its cost.  I like others, get caught up in that type of talk, but it’s rarely the truth. I want to hear the Discrete, Grimm and my Nyquist to see which one i like best.  Not sure I’ll be able to get all of them in my system anytime soon, but will try. 

[Holmz]

8 minutes ago, ctsooner said:

I’d be shocked if the streamer/server of the Grimm is as good.  I do want to go listen for many reasons.  I’ve heard from two others i trust that the Grimm DAC is very special and could go for twice its cost.  I like others, get caught up in that type of talk, but it’s rarely the truth. I want to hear the Discrete, Grimm and my Nyquist to see which one i like best.  Not sure I’ll be able to get all of them in my system anytime soon, but will try. 

Like all things Grimm, it is a fairy tail.

[Delkat]

Very happy with the Grimm MU-1 with the Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC combo. The MU-2 should also be great if you want a one box solution.