Toe-in?

[ctsooner]

On 12/22/2021 at 9:41 AM, GdnrBob said:

I hate to mention it but, did you check the batteries?

I have one if you need it.

B

Thanks guys.  Yes Bob.  I did.  It was just dead on arrival and is now being recycled, lol.  I'll try to find one. Bob, I'll let you know when I can do the set up and hopefully you and come up to help.  Thanks. Anyone else would be invited too if you are close to the Hartford, CT area.  🙂 

[Holmz]

These toe-in lessons sort of reminds of the “Pizza and French Fries” method of teaching kids to snow plow when they start skiing.

It might be RV in the foreground at Mt. Reba, or China Peek?
 

[Paul S.]

Just wanted to let everyone know that i revisited my toe in again. It may seem like i like to adjust my speakers than listen to music but I want to get it as perfect as i can. Having my 2 ce so close to side walls (i barely make 17" from center of speaker to wall) i thought i needed to toe them in quite a bit but I seemed to have lost the bass. I disconnected my 2wq and pulled the x2 crossover out so I can adust the bass from only the speakers to the room. What i found is that i was actually using too much toe in. I went back to straight ahead and very slightly toed in the speakers. Diana Krall's but beautiful is perfect for this as her voice just fills the room making you feel like she ia right in front of you. End result is 3 degrees of toe in on the right speaker and 2 degrees on the left. Why not equal you might ask but i have a bay window near my right speaker which i cover with heavy curtains but it is not as reflective as the left wall so the reflection from the left speaker hits my ear first. To credit RV what he says in the manual is correct that very little toe in is required for these speakers. After getting the bass right on the 2ce and adding my 2wq back in the picture i have nice deep floor shaking bass and vocals are centered, clear, and appropriately sized. 

[Holmz]

9 minutes ago, Paul S. said:

Just wanted to let everyone know that i revisited my toe in again.
…

It is pizza and french fries… not just pizza. 

Sometime it almost needs to be just about out of control before it is perfect…
Here it is shown “toed out”…

(much the same  lIke sometimes a race car has toed out front wheels… they are not always running toe in,  just usually they are.)

[Paul S.]

Dont ski and im from the northeast so we dont eat pizza with french fries. I have a race car and wont get into thay debate here but I think I get what you are saying. 

[Holmz]

34 minutes ago, Paul S. said:

Dont ski and im from the northeast so we dont eat pizza with french fries. I have a race car and wont get into thay debate here but I think I get what you are saying. 

How about the book, “the art of racing in the rain” then?
(It also doesn’t have a lot to do with speakers.)

[Steve Edwards]

Paul, I'm with you!  My room is small 12' wide.  Per John Rutan's guidance, I have my Quatros pretty close to the sidewalls.  As the cabinet that holds my records is on the right wall, the left  speaker is even closer to its side wall.  Thinking with that close proximity that the internal subs would react too much with the walls, I've been experimenting with toe-in on and off for a few years.

Looking for a little more width in my imaging, I recalled my original Vandersteen dealer, Richard Hardesty, recommending that I begin positioning with the  speakers facing straight out.  Thinking that the center image may suffer, I have hesitated doing that  .........  until a few days ago.  I left them at the same distance apart (an equilateral triangle with the center of the couch) but eliminated the toe in.  Oh my  ...........  not only did it maintain the strong center image on vocals (when it's in the recording), but most instruments hard left or right now seemed to have moved back and out, at about a 45 degree angle, or 10 and 2 o'clock.   And, that's just with cd's!; still waiting on the new cartridge for my turntable service.

I've said it before, but I think my Quatros have finally found their final position in Studio V!  :-)) 

[ctsooner]

Everyone has their way to do set ups. I’ve found that using the manual puts the speakers in the same position as any other set up for the most part. Playing and listening is the only way to work,  it keep it simple and do what he manual says first. Then go from there to adjust. 

[Paul S.]

The manual is spot on. I would say that i learned to get out of the mindset of everything being equal. Different surface areas can alter the time the sound takes to get to your ears so its best to adjust without the measuring tape for the best sound. I would say that the manual gets you very close and fine tune from there. And when i say fine tune its like a 1/4 inch at a time. 

[olds1959special]

My speakers are spread apart much wider than the diagram in the manual shows. So I toe them in a bit, but I have been trying less toe-in lately for a more spread image.

[ctsooner]

On 6/1/2024 at 3:04 PM, olds1959special said:

My speakers are spread apart much wider than the diagram in the manual shows. So I toe them in a bit, but I have been trying less toe-in lately for a more spread image.

My biggest concern would be suck out in the middle if not done correctly.  Good luck.