Recommendations for AVR and/or Power AMP for Vandersteen 2CE Sig ii system

[ShenEarl]

 

Here is the long story made longer.

 I have a set of Vandersteen 2CE Signature ii main speakers along with Vandy center channel and sides.  Previously, I was running the setup with a Denon x4000.  I thought the sound was pretty sweet overall, but I don’t know how an amp or other changes would impact the sound.  The Denon died, so I am looking to replace/upgrade, etc. 

 •The Denon died while testing the new (to me) speakers as well as a set of MITerminator 2 cables.  I did have the volume high at points, but the failure occurred while volume was low and sliding the cabinet back into place.  Not sure what caused the failure.

 •So, now I am trying to come up with a replacement solution with a budget of $1500.  I need to support a surround sound system, so an AVR needs to be a piece of the pie...or, the whole pie.  While the surround needs to be in place, my first concern is stereo for music using the 2 Sig ii speakers on their own for stereo.  Given that I am not super savvy with electronics, I wouldn’t mind buying 1 component from someplace like Crutchfield or other that gives lifetime customer support.  

 Here are options that I have thought of...

 •Replace my current AVR with something like the Denon x4800h.  If I bought it refurb or some other manner, that would largely blow the budget.  Because of all of the other components that are tied in, we need at least 4 HDMI ports.  My bride would prefer to have WiFi and Bluetooth capavilities.

 •Buy something like the Denon x1800, which I think would be sufficient for our moderate volume TV/movie listening and then buy a power amplifier. Would 80 wpc be sufficient for that? And then, add a power amplifier when I am doing music only?

 (I’m not sure if the single pre-out will be sufficient.)

 •Buy something like the Denon x3800h refurb or ebay with warranty to have some money leftover for a power amp.

 •Crutchfield has an Onkyo TX-RZ50 on sale, which is 120 wpc and would allow room for a used power amp perhaps.

 •I’m sure there are a myriad of other options out there with mono blocks, I have seen people use Class-D amps, etc....

 •I am likely going to sell my MITerminator 2 cables (20’ in length) and replace with something else.  

 •And....if you have equipment and want to throw an offer my way, I’ll take a peek.  This post will surely put me in data over my head very quickly.

 Grateful for your help and recommendations.

 Dave

 

 

 

 

 

[ShenEarl]

Also looking at other brands...trying to figure out in the NAD, used Rotel,  Outlaw, Emotive, etc that would be more in my price range.  I know what I would LIKE to do, but the checkbook is the checkbook...

[Holmz]

1 hour ago, ShenEarl said:

…

 •The Denon died while testing the new (to me) speakers as well as a set of MITerminator 2 cables.  I did have the volume high at points, but the failure occurred while volume was low and sliding the cabinet back into place.  Not sure what caused the failure.

… 

A shorted cable would not unheard of.
I would start by sending the unit back to Devon.
Do the lights come on, or what is happening now?
Is a fuse blown?

…

Down the line, one can either run and AVR and long speaker cables, or run balanced lines to amps at each speaker.
(There is certainly less chance of a short with a bunch o  locking XLRs)

[stratocaster]

Having dabbled with a significant permutations and combinations of Vandersteen speakers, A/V receivers and separate components, I can tell you that A/V receivers under 2-3k  category are best for HT/ TV/gaming and leave you extremely unsatisfied with stereo performance. Ater all there’s a downside to cramming a ton of components in a small form factor. If you haven’t heard your speakers in a true stereo setup then you won’t know what you are missing so you will be good with any Yamaha/Denon/Sony/Pioneer etc. I have always had Pioneer Elite receivers and have never been disappointed with surround sound. Stereo performance is an oxymoron with it though. You might get a little better stereo performance with Rotel and Nad but they are still sub par from a true quality stereo experience. 

[ShenEarl]

1 hour ago, Holmz said:

A shorted cable would not unheard of.
I would start by sending the unit back to Devon.
Do the lights come on, or what is happening now?
Is a fuse blown?

…

Down the line, one can either run and AVR and long speaker cables, or run balanced lines to amps at each speaker.
(There is certainly less chance of a short with a bunch o  locking XLRs)

Any way to really test that cable to see if that was/is the issue?

[Richard Vandersteen]

HT/Music systems can work but no A/V Receiver will be satisfactory ultimately for music.  The best music would be separates (used if necessary) using a pre-amp with theatre by-pass and quality amplifier.  This should be selected for the desired music 2 channel performance.  For HT select an A/V Receiver to drive the LFE Sub, Center and Rear channels and the Main Front right and left into the pre-amp Theater By-pass input.   Do not try to do more than 5 channels on a budget as going for more would just make everything mediocre.  This can be very rewarding and can be purchased over time as budget allows.  I would start with the stereo system using one of the inputs for 2 channel movies while sorting out the remainder and financing.  RV

[Holmz]

3 hours ago, ShenEarl said:

Any way to really test that cable to see if that was/is the issue?

For instance, if a speaker cable came undone when moving it, and it shorted between the + and -, then I would expect a fuse to pop, or internal protection to kick in.

A volt meter, or Digital Multi Meter (DMM), about $10 from Harbour Fright.
It should read 6-8 ohms, with the amp turned off, but it sort of depends on the amp’s passive impedance when off.
I had young workmate , check the impedance at the cables before he hooked the speakers up to the amps. So it is a handy thing to check

Here is what I would recommend:

• I would definitely start with an electronics repair place or sending the unit to Denon.
  • Pictures of the back of the Denon show no fuse holder, so it is probably inside, if it has one.
  • Almost any corner shop electronics place can fix it if it is simple.
  • Assuming that works, then you can figure out what to do.
  • But as you mentioned it “sounded pretty sweet”, then at least getting it back to there seems like a solid initial plan..
• If the unit is indeed toast then you need to decide on an AVR or on an AVP.
  • Whether or not you get an AVR or an AVP you still have either RCA or XLR outputs, so you can run external amps
  • But it needs to be thought about in conjunction with which stereo preamps have a home theatre bypass, and whether they are XLR or RCA.
    • This can be a somewhat complicated thing, and it might help if there is a spreadsheet jockey to help noodle through it.
  • Don’t worry about this step #2, until you know whether the Denon unit is truely dead.

 

1 hour ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

HT/Music systems can work but no A/V Receiver will be satisfactory ultimately for music. 
…

^This^

My AVP sounds pretty good streaming, but the output is not an internal AVR amplifier.
It is going into a preamp with a HT bypass (I dunno if those are common??)

That sort of  AVP —> pre-amp —> a stereo amp, or monoblocks, can stress a budget somewhat… even getting some of it used.
But it can be done slowly.

 

[redwoodzz]

If the Denon is toast then I would grab the Marantz Cinema 50 on sale at Accessories 4 Less which is in your budget. I think that will work well. If you are still not satisfied with the 2 channel performance you can always add a 2 channel amp and use the Cinema 50 pre outs to get something better. You can also set the front channels to pre out mode and turn off the internal amps of the AVR. Plus you get all of the latest HDMI chip set.

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marcinema50-rb/marantz-cinema-50-9.4-ch-x-110-watts-a/v-8k-receiver-black/1.html

If you can get the Denon fixed you can always use the pre outs on that and run it as a pre-pro and get more power.

 

[HiTekCowboy]

I'm not sure how married to Dolby Atmos(Discrete surround) or things like eARC and tying in all your HDMI devices, you are, but you might give a look at the Schiit Syn surround, and considering just getting a dedicated 5ch amplifier(or breaking it up and getting several amps like I did).
https://www.schiit.com/products/syn

With my setup, for music I run the USB in from a Raspberry Pi 4 with MoOde installed, and from the TV I run optical(and have things like my PS5, Switch(dock) just ran to the TV through pass-through cables in the wall .
There is also a stereo RCA input for other devices like turntables, CD players, etc.
You can switch between all three inputs pretty easily.

The nice thing with the Syn is that there is also a stereo mode that you can switch into(like a lot of other receivers) if you are looking for that to listen to music exclusively on your main channels.

[DC-93]

Parasound makes good equipment.  Maybe consider used gear...

 

I have an HCA-1000A running my Sig II speakers. The high damping factor of the amp really controls the 10" and 8" woofers.

The HCA-1000A got an excellent review from Stereophile.   Like Vandersteen products, a great bang for the buck.

I bought mine in 1998.   NO issues at all, after all these years.