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Granite under Vandersteens?


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The Treos will be in the downstairs system with a Rel T9, VPI Scoutmaster, PS audio Stellar Phono, Rogue Cronus Magnum  III,  M2 Joplin, & Chord TT2 (Mscaler coming soon). This should keep me happy fora while.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Had bases fabricated out of three layers 1 1/4  thick black granite weighting 120lbs the spikes sit in spike floor protectors and 1/10 of an inch double stick sorbothane

the speakers where realigned and tuned   the denefits in one word focus 

 

IMG_1675.jpg

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They look great.  I just had the two slabs with the adhesive.  I like the chamfer. I only did a small round over and mine are nearly the same dimensions as teh bottom of the speaker (I added an extra 1/2" all around.  I'd be doing this for any of the floor standing speakers as it will help focus as you said, but it also finishes off the look for me.  Even my wife likes the black on black look (Quatro's that are painted Audi Havana Black on the black plinths that have a bit of copper sparkle in them to match the metallic pain which is the darkest brown Silkens could produce).

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Guys,  just get Richards Vander shoes that hold the spikes.  They have a special felt on the bottom to hold them securely in place so the speaker doesn't move. The reason they help with focus so much, is because it prevents the speaker from moving and that preserves the time and phase of the speaker.  I think I said that correctly.  If you are in carpet in to a wood subfloor, then I'd recommend the granite and shoes.  If into concrete, then you are in great shape.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

First post here, hoping to get some answers to a couple of questions I have. I sent these questions to the Ask Richard site about 3 weeks ago but no reply. I emailed the company and nothing. In the past, Richard and the company have been very responsive and helpful. It's Covid time and everything is complicated, I guess.

I have a pair of Treo CTs, that I love. As positioning the speakers is important for good sound, I have been reading about it. In one of his answers in the Ask Richard page, he states that "THE TREO CT IS DESIGNED TO BE USED WITHIN 12 INCHES OF THE REAR WALL". This seems a little strange to me because it limits very much the positioning of the speakers. In my experience the Vandersteen speakers sound better with some distance from the walls. Plus, I think that the Odd dimensions placement works really well and it is more flexible. What do you think?

My other question was related to granite slabs. I've seen that some people find it helpful and Richard seems to endorse it too. I put some granite slabs --about 1" thick-- and it helped the sound. Nothing dramatic but tighter bass and better space between instruments, and they look very cool! My room has carpet on top of concrete. What I wanted to know was if the spike shoes that Vandersteen sells will have an impact on the sound. There is no information on the materials or design  in the Vandersteen page. Not even a picture. So I am curious about them.

Finally, the manual states that "Improper listening height can cause the speakers to sound bright or dull."  To get this right, you need to adjust the tilt of the speakers by inserting washers in the rear spike. When do they sound bright? When there is too much tilt forward (too many washers) or not enough tilt forward? 

Any ideas will be appreciated. Thanks!!

 

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Hi Leo

Let take this one at a time speaker position placing the speaker closer to the wall helps to enforce the bass but to close to the effects the sound stage one of the easiest ways is to put your speakers on furniture slides move them around until you get good balance 

Now on tilt back you have found the perfect place for your speakers place them on the bases  at your seat use cushions by add or subtracting them you can tell if you need to add or subtract washers

The granite bases do help the bass but also imaging too hope this helps 

Enjoy the Music 

Tom

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Hello and welcome Leo.  Thank you for joining this group; I’m sure you’ll find the exchanges useful and enlightening. 
 

I’ve been a Vandersteen fan / owner since the mid 80s.  While I have learned a lot in the last five years about getting the most out of Richard’s designs, I am not an electrical engineer and would be painfully inept at explaining amplitude, impedance or negative / positive feedback, etc.  What I can share is the importance of positioning.  
 

Richard’s recommendation of within 12” of the back wall probably has to do with bass response.  It will generally increase with closer proximity.  From the Quatros on up, the speakers contain built in powered subs with 11 band equalization, providing finer tuning of the bass to the specific room.   BUT, the proof is in the pudding. If your Treos sound better to you farther into your room, that’s where I would place them.  Again, investing the time to experiment with positioning will reap benefits.  One side note:  a change in sound is not necessarily an improvement ............ gotta let your ears and your brain make that distinction. 
 

Regarding Vandersteen spike shoes, my situation is different.  My listening room is ground floor concrete, covered with wood-look-alike laminate planks; hence negating the need for granite slabs.  I was using Herbie’s Audio Spike / Cone Gliders. When I replaced them with the Vandy footers, the improvement in sound was not subtle. I highly recommend them.  I mentioned in another thread in this forum that it was, by far, the best $130 upgrade I’ve ever done. 
 

And tilt  .............  I heard Richard say it’s the single most important adjustment you can make on a Vandersteen speaker.  I had my Quatros set to the number of washers per the owners manual. Although, a laser from the top of each speaker indicated an uneven surface.  So, I added an additional washer to the right, which brought the laser spot on.  But, at 64 years into my journey, a hearing test concluded that I have lost some high frequency.  Again, I thought I had the tilt set to the recommended angle, but it occurred to me that maybe a little more tilt would send the 6” window that the tweeter projects more directly at my 42” listening height.  Bingo! .........  whether it’s the “recommended” angle or not, I’m hearing those cymbals better now. 
 

Congratulations on your Treo CTs!  My Quatros are the older fabric version.  Other than in the bass, with all the improvements made in the latest drivers,  I’m pretty sure your Treos outperform my transducers  🙂


Play on

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2 hours ago, Steve Edwards said:

When I replaced them with the Vandy footers, the improvement in sound was not subtle. I highly recommend them.  I mentioned in another thread in this forum that it was, by far, the best $130 upgrade I’ve ever done.

Hi Steve, did you source your Vandy footers from Vandersteen or a dealer? I'm interested in purchasing a set. (Did I see somewhere that you are in So Cal? In in Altadena in the LA area.)

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Hey John, yes, I’m in Orange County. But, though I’ve yet to meet him in person, I have a great relationship with John Rutan of Audio Connection in Verona, New Jersey.  I ordered mine from him, though I’m sure Randy at Optimal Enchantment / Santa Monica or Bruce at Stereo Unlimited / San Diego would accommodate you. 

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Thank you for the replies. Very helpful. 

Tom, thanks for the advice. That is what I've tried to do, with good results. I wonder if the thickness of the slabs has any effect on the sound. Mine are only 1 inch thick.

Steve, I agree with your comments on the distance to the rear wall. I'm still curious about Richard's comment. I have the feeling that the meant something else, not that the best position is 12'' or less from the wall. Maybe something more like "even if the speakers are very close to the walls they still will sound great".  I wanted to have a more technical explanation from him. Just curious.

On the tilt, your comments are very helpful. At the beginning the Treos were sounding a little bright. I moved them away from the side walls (a few inches), toed in a little, and added one more washer than what the manual indicates, and it solved the issue. Then I added the slabs and sound got even better. I may get the spike shoes, it's a cheap tweak. I just wanted to have some info from Vandersteen on the materials, and why he thinks they help with the sound. There isn't even a picture on the Vandersteen site. 

Same as you, I have no technical preparation at all, but I try to understand, as much as I can, the technical part of this hobby. Just for fun (or to torture my aging brain, I'm 67 :)).

Again, thanks for the replies. Happy listening.

Leo

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Welcome Leo and I hope you stay and enjoy the forums going forward!  Folks have covered placement, so all I'll share is that I had the Treo's (Gardener Bob on the forum now proudly owns them).  I had them about 30" out and they sounded great.  I now have Quatro CT's and Rutan set them up right in the corners of the room.  They sound great there too.  You can put them wherever they sound best in your room.  

As for granite bases, I too have them.  I had two slabs glued together.  I got the Vander feet like the others on the board.  He uses a special felt that makes the difference. That said, if you are spiking directly to concrete you may not hear a difference.  The whole idea is to make sure your speakers aren't moving at all. it's all about keeping the time and phase correct.  Fundamental Vandersteen design.  Just like trying to feed them a fully balanced, zero feedback signal.  

Not sure if I added anything to the thread, but your questions are excellent.

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