2C speaker test

[Holmz]

5 hours ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

… My design priorities are Waveform and noise found with a waterfall plot.
… Entertaining and respectful! …

RV 

I saw the interview with Atkinson where you mentioned the mic, cartridge, electronic all faithfully following the waveform…
It seems like more of a factual statement, than an opinion, that accurate step function response (and impulse response) results in a truer acoustical representation of the signal.

I am assuming that waterfall was cabinet resonance then?
 

31 minutes ago, BKDad said:

…

As I said earlier, best to listen for yourself

I listened to some locally made speakers a week ago, They were actually very nice in terms of listening.
However I do not trust my listening too much… It took me months in the 80s to get the 2Cs. And these local speakers with the new SoTA drivers, in a room that I have not been in, sighted, etc… That makes it all somewhat biased. Therefore I am more easily convinced with data.
(I.e.… I know my speakers will sound good before the music even starts 😃) 

I do not know whether many other designers in the 2C era were using FFT machines, and measurements all that much?
The speakers do not seem to be designed by accident, other than the original tweeter and midrange on a pole. But after “ah-ha” that it seems to have been methodical.
Yeah once they are done, then the listening is really all that matters. But  when I put on a song I like, if the speaker is decent, then it becomes more of a binary good/bad.

In any case it was totally by accident that I found the local fellow, as I was in the local wood shop looking for wood to made a pizza board to Hansel and Gretel the pizza out of the oven… and I saw a box face..

 
I am still perplexed by narrowness of the radiation pattern. I was expected something way too wide, not biased towards the controlled side of things.
it is really interesting that they measure so well. The distortion is a bit high, but drivers in that era were limited, and the ripple I can correct with a DSP if the <endless> honey-doo list gets worked off.

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Holmz

[bkeske]

5 hours ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

So in the overall scheme of things, we are the odd ducks. 

 Well, I guess that makes most of us odd ducks too Richard, or perhaps ducklings. Quack quack 😄

When I got my original 1’s, I really had zero knowledge of this design theory, I just knew at the very first listen they simply sounded ‘right’ to me,  even beyond the natural tone and timber.  I was hooked. Then came to 2’s, and now the Treo’s. Yes, I  guess I’m a duck.

Edited November 18, 2021 by bkeske

[Holmz]

9 minutes ago, bkeske said:

 Well, I guess that makes most of us odd ducks too Richard, or perhaps ducklings. Quack quack 😄

When I got my original 1’s, I really had zero knowledge of this design theory, I just knew at the very first listen they simply sounded ‘right’ to me,  even beyond the natural tone and timber.  I was hooked. Then came to 2’s, and now the Treo’s. Yes, I  guess I’m a duck.

Here you go Bruss (Aussie slang for Brutha)


(There are like the “Ingham Chicken” equivilent, for duck in Australia) 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Holmz

[Richard Vandersteen]

53 minutes ago, Holmz said:

I saw the interview with Atkinson where you mentioned the mic, cartridge, electronic all faithfully following the waveform…
It seems like more of a factual statement, than an opinion, that accurate step function response (and impulse response) results in a truer acoustical representation of the signal.

I am assuming that waterfall was cabinet resonance then?
 

I listened to some locally made speakers a week ago, They were actually very nice in terms of listening.
However I do not trust my listening too much… It took me months in the 80s to get the 2Cs. And these local speakers with the new SoTA drivers, in a room that I have not been in, sighted, etc… That makes it all somewhat biased. Therefore I am more easily convinced with data.
(I.e.… I know my speakers will sound good before the music even starts 😃) 

I do not know whether many other designers in the 2C era were using FFT machines, and measurements all that much?
The speakers do not seem to be designed by accident, other than the original tweeter and midrange on a pole. But after “ah-ha” that it seems to have been methodical.
Yeah once they are done, then the listening is really all that matters. But  when I put on a song I like, if the speaker is decent, then it becomes more of a binary good/bad.

In any case it was totally by accident that I found the local fellow, as I was in the local wood shop looking for wood to made a pizza board to Hansel and Gretel the pizza out of the oven… and I saw a box face..

 
I am still perplexed by narrowness of the radiation pattern. I was expected something way too wide, not biased towards the controlled side of things.
it is really interesting that they measure so well. The distortion is a bit high, but drivers in that era were limited, and the ripple I can correct with a DSP if the <endless> honey-doo list gets worked off.

 

The water fall plot show stored energy that is released after the signal has stopped.  It will show crossover ringing, cabinet resonances, driver cone breakup modes and nearby reflected energy.  The + or - 3 db response irregularities  are not as audible as the digital correction will impart every time I try it.   The narrowness is the result of diffraction and was on purpose to minimize side wall interactions.  The truth is if you have been infected by a speaker that is "Time and Phase Correct" after awhile the ultimate goal should be a Treo or above  new or used.  The One's, Two's and Three's are a great introduction but the next move should be getting the cabinet out of the way and reducing diffraction. IMHO

RV  

[TomicTime]

just another duck…

Edited November 18, 2021 by TomicTime

[ctsooner]

Duck here too.  Very strange..;) 

[DC-93]

On 11/13/2021 at 12:31 PM, ctsooner said:

Well put by all.  I have to do digital and it's so much easier.  That said, I continue to look at tables, because I know how great they sound no matter how good the digital is.  It's another reason I love to listen to vinyl when visiting others

In the last 6 months or so, I have picked up mint, vintage Japanese vinyl.  Artists that I really liked as a kid: Led Zeppelin, early solo Mccartney and Wings, Yes, Roxy Music...

In all instances, the sound was amazing!   Black background, voices hanging in air, no pops, clicks, scratches! 

I'm using an NOS Denon DL-160 Hi Output coil.