Vinyl / Turntables

[TomicTime]

Arsenal deployed !

[ctsooner]

Nice set up Jim.  Love how you got the table in there, lol.  

[Holmz]

Is that a blue phaser on the shelf above the TT?

[John Gallup]

33 minutes ago, Holmz said:

Is that a blue phaser on the shelf above the TT?

I've got one too. Keeps the Klingons at bay. 

[atlvalet]

Thanks for that list @TomicTime. It really helps. 👍

Now that I have settled on and purchased a table, my head is spinning a bit with all the "things" and trying to learn the right way to set up a cart. I'm wrapping head around null points and spindle to pivot distance and Berwald and Lofgren-B geometries 😄

Yesterday I didn't even know what those were. Today, I'm still not sure...but am learning.

Edited February 9, 2023 by atlvalet

[Holmz]

24 minutes ago, atlvalet said:

Thanks for that list @TomicTime. It really helps. 👍

Now that I have settled on and purchased a table, my head is spinning a bit with all the "things" and trying to learn the right way to set up a cart. I'm wrapping head around null points and spindle to pivot distance and Berwald and Lofgren-B geometries 😄

Given the difference between the Berwald and Lofgren-B in terms of overhang, it sort can be extrapolated that the spindle to pivot distance is more of an “in the ball park” deal. It might change the angle from 1.X of angular error to be 0,1 degrees higher.
So it good to be right, but azimuth SRA and Zenith can be off by multiple degrees. And setting the things we know is easier than the one we do not know, so many get anal with the easy stuff and just eyeball the zenith.
At some point the Zenith needs to go from visually perfect to setting it “by ear”… and VTA as well.
Azimuth can use measurements and numbers.

(Somewhere) I have an alloy wedge in made in the late 80s, as the VTA seemed to only work with the arm up at the pivot like a stink bug.
The wedge made it more of a level arm.
I did not know that carts can be off by degrees back then… it just sounded better with the cart rotated in pitch.

 

24 minutes ago, atlvalet said:

…
Yesterday I didn't even know what those were. Today, I'm still not sure...but am learning.

IMO Just brushing the LP and play it… Is not a bad start.
If it doesn’t sound bad, then it is right enough as a start.

[TomicTime]

 i believe your arm and table are from same company ? IF so just use the protractor they supply . Most of the rest can be the source of endless debate. The key is that ALL the alignments are a compromise. IMO best to use the alignment geometry that your arm was designed and TT drilled for, as long as the cartridge you choose can hit THE spot !  Ask them !

Jim

 

[DC-93]

I have a mid 70s Technics SL-1100A with a Denon DL-160. (found NOS!)

Having listened to BIG BUCK turntables with HIGH DOLLAR cartridges, I'd say it gets me to about 95% there...   😎 

 

[atlvalet]

22 hours ago, TomicTime said:

 i believe your arm and table are from same company ? IF so just use the protractor they supply . Most of the rest can be the source of endless debate. The key is that ALL the alignments are a compromise. IMO best to use the alignment geometry that your arm was designed and TT drilled for, as long as the cartridge you choose can hit THE spot !  Ask them !

Jim

 

Yeah. Same table and arm.

And thanks. There's definitely a learning curve if you've never had to deal with this all before.

Give me a CD. That's easy lol

[Holmz]

13 hours ago, atlvalet said:

Yeah. Same table and arm.

And thanks. There's definitely a learning curve if you've never had to deal with this all before.

Give me a CD. That's easy lol

I think I have told the story before, but back in the 90’s the kiddies used to vex in the morning, by not being ready for school in time…

So one morning I was waiting and put on a record… the one that they liked.
So after that we made a deal… If they were ready 5 minutes ahead of time, they could have a dance to a song.

And referring to the TT and LPs, they would say, “Dad can you put on one of the big CDs?”

(I suppose we could call it a big boi, or big girl, CDs here?)

Edited February 10, 2023 by Holmz

[ctsooner]

I used to own a big CD player..... they called it Laser Disc 😉. hehe

[atlvalet]

Question about phono RCA cables. I have some fancier Audioquest XLR cables I use with my 3A Sigs, but I use cheaper Blue Jeans copper cables for the rest of things. Is there a good basic phono cable that I could use. Willing to spend $100 or so.

The higher-level Pro-Ject cable looked interesting to me, but I'm sure there is something I haven't considered because I'm a newb.

Also, picked up an Aragon 47K phono preamp for cheap (also have an updated 4004 amp and 24K SP preamp), and had it hot-rodded. I've modified my cars, so I figure why not my classic audio equipment too? LOL

For those interested, here's a link to the AudioKarma thread on it:

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/modialfan-aragon-47k-upgrade-magic.1022795/

Edited February 22, 2023 by atlvalet

[Holmz]

7 hours ago, atlvalet said:

Question about phono RCA cables. I have some fancier Audioquest XLR cables I use with my 3A Sigs, but I use cheaper Blue Jeans copper cables for the rest of things. Is there a good basic phono cable that I could use. Willing to spend $100 or so.

The higher-level Pro-Ject cable looked interesting to me, but I'm sure there is something I haven't considered because I'm a newb.

Also, picked up an Aragon 47K phono preamp for cheap…
,,,,

Cables are akin to arguing religion.
I did get some of the Jupiter cotton or silk covered IC and some Neutrik RCAs.
Holding a finger up to the swine, a 22ga seemed about right. For a 3ft pair that would be 4x 3’ and be about $100.

https://jupitercondenser.com/products/cotton-insulated-5n-silver-wire?_pos=1&_sid=2ec65940a&_ss=r

 

The cotton or silk insulation has a lower dielectric constant, so the cables generally have a lower capacitance.
(But I am more of a numbers fellow)
It still runs about $100 for the parts, and you need a soldering iron.

If nothing else the BJ cables make a good baseline, and are h generally accepted as being pretty good, and great value.

A few months back (maybe 6 months) Mark Dohmann said something like, “You want to get from the fine tonearm wires into a larger gauge as soon as practical. And you want to get keep the distances short, so that the total capacitance is not being increased with extra length.”

The cotton or silk insulation is my poor man’s attempt at something like the AQ battery biased cables to address some dielectric polarisation thing. In the M5-HP and the TEF version, there are capacitors in there, so it makes sense to have a battery bias them.

Currently I still have Mogami star-quad and BJ uses that or Cardas, and it sounded just lovely.
I am expecting to be similar with the silver Jupiter silver ones, but maybe I’ll be shocked.

I’ll be keeping my phono stage close to the TT, and then I am pretty sure I’ll be something like 18-20” to the terminal block from the cart, and maybe 20-24” from the XLR terminal block to the phono stage’s RCAs… which has a dip switch to make them as balanced into an internal step up transformer.

I did make up a Mogami pair already for the XLR to RCA using the shield pulled out ahead of the RCA as the grounding point to the phono stage. 

 

Is the Aragon RCA or XLR?
And is the TT coming out as RCA or XLR?

[atlvalet]

11 hours ago, Holmz said:

Is the Aragon RCA or XLR?

And is the TT coming out as RCA or XLR?

Aragon is RCA. TT comes out RCA.

Just for the record, I am cable agnostic 🙂

I got some fancy (for me) Audioquest Water XLR cables because I've read/seen Richard has good things to say about them, but my TT will be hooked up to my other system which is all RCA.

Thanks for the Jupiter recco. I did go down a rabbit hole and saw that the Audio Sensibility cables have a lot of people singing their praises. A .7 meter run of their phono cables is $150 shipped from Canada. Think I may try the Jupiter and take a flyer on those as well.

Appreciate the feedback.

[ctsooner]

Most Vandersteen dealers sell AQ as their main cable for a reason. I had the top Synergistic cables as well as their top end power conditioner with their top cord. The mid level AW stuff that Garth came out with was so much better in my system in my room. 
 

I use their under $100 cables and cords in my bedroom system and it’s a very noticeable difference. Was using old cardas and Kimber I have laying around. 

[Mike Goetz]

On 2/23/2023 at 10:29 AM, ctsooner said:

Most Vandersteen dealers sell AQ as their main cable for a reason. 

I’d be very interested to hear the reason. I do see a lot of AQ cables in the forum. 

[Richard Vandersteen]

41 minutes ago, Mike Goetz said:

I’d be very interested to hear the reason. I do see a lot of AQ cables in the forum. 

Several good reasons for that.  I know cables are used to color a system to taste by many people but when I developed the M5-HP (High Pass) i needed to have a neutral cable that would pass this color through.  I built a direct by-pass box to assess these colors and was amazed at how colored some of the popular cables were.  I chose the AQ cable because it was the most neutral of the ones I tested (about 20 or so different ones) as a pigtail for the M5-High-passes.  It is the primary wire we use for speaker and amp development for the same reason.  Many of our customers and Dealers have discovered the same and therefore also use them.  Others use different cables, amplifiers and ETC to their own taste and over the years I have experienced systems of happy owners where I don't recognize my own work but that is the beauty I imagine of an accurate Time and Phase Correct speaker.  RV

[Mike Goetz]

Thanks Richard. I have used AQs in the distant past, but have since migrated to Morrow SP6 with my 3A Signatures and I am extremely pleased. 

[ctsooner]

All that matters is loving your music and your system.  I've tried so many brands in my system that folks bring over or send and I can say that the AQ line really is the most neutral in my house.  I sold all my top MIT, Kimber and Cardas cables since moving to AQ.

[atlvalet]

Ok, finally picked up my turntable.

Since the TT was in Austin (picked it up and drove back to Tulsa this weekend) I found a Clearaudio dealer in town (Casey at Ne Plus Ultra...liked him a lot). He recommended I go with Hana, so I got the Hana EL installed and Casey set it all up for me (thank goodness for dealers). He found the speed needed to be adjusted and he set up everything...azimuth, VTA, tonearm height, etc.

He advised leaving the platter off, so I did and put the TT on the floor of the passenger seat (didn't want it in the rear of the car moving like a pendulum).

Got everything home. Turns out the arm already had Clearaudio RCA cables installed, so that's what I'll be using for now. Just waiting on a bubble level and a tracking force scale (both show up tomorrow) so I can give the table its first test run. The table should work great with the Genesis Technologies speakers (the Vandy's are in my XLR-only system) and I have not (yet) gotten adapters. I know, I know, gotta listen on the 3A Sigs but I'm moving soon and one thing at a time lol

BTW, I sold my Holo Audio Spring 2 KTE DAC (gonna upgrade to the May DAC) and put my Gustard X26 Pro in there for now...the Genesis speakers are very detailed and there's a little fatigue with the X26...sounds fine on the Vandy's tho. May throw in my Sonic Frontiers tube DAC just for giggles.

Also, I know this isn't the best set up acoustically (big reflective TV) but like I said...moving soon.

Edited March 29, 2023 by atlvalet

[ursus13]

@atlvalet Thanks for sharing. I’d love to hear what you think of the Clearaudio, once you have a chance to take it for a spin.

[Bruskie]

@atlvalet  I used to deal with Casey when he was at Innovative Audio 35 years ago. He has consistently been one of the nicest and honest audio dealers in the industry. He did quite a few upgrades on my tables and electronics back then. I'm sure that TT will sing. Congratulations.

Bruce

[ctsooner]

Atlvalet, are you in Tulsa?  I'm in CT and from here, but am a Sooner and get out there a few times a year for football games (and next year Softball World Series).  

[atlvalet]

I am in Tulsa. Been here two years due to the remote worker program they set up (they pay you to move here). Kinda ready to leave, tho lol

Lived in LA for 20 years and loved it there, but not paying those kinda rents/prices again. Austin seems intriguing. May check out that next.

Feel free to ping/DM me if you come out. Not sure where I'll be, but would love to meet another Vandersteen owner.

[atlvalet]

On 3/30/2023 at 10:31 PM, Bruskie said:

@atlvalet  I used to deal with Casey when he was at Innovative Audio 35 years ago. He has consistently been one of the nicest and honest audio dealers in the industry. He did quite a few upgrades on my tables and electronics back then. I'm sure that TT will sing. Congratulations.

Bruce

I mean, it was a great experience...especially since I was coordinating things from Tulsa.

I would 100% do business with Casey again. He was great.