PaulB's 2ce sig and 2wq system

[TomicTime]

[ctsooner]

I have the Bosch that I have used around the house for years.  It comes in so handy when setting things up, that's for sure.  Great idea Tomic.

[PaulB]

Dear all,

My apologies to all for the long radio silence.  There are the usual excuses, but I also wanted time to let the new spacing settle in.  AND, I purchased the Bosch measuring tool, which is almost too much fun. 

Steve, I now have an equilateral spread 7' apart, toed-in 1/2". Sounds pretty good.  It's sounds big, and that scale has benefits and costs. I also played with my 2wq's settings, and came to the conclusion that it's the bass level  in the recordings that ranges far more widely than anything to do with my setup, so I settled back to a tight Q and a sensitivity slightly above that rated for the 2ce Sigs. 

The new configuration has forced me to face something with my left speaker that I've been tolerating too long. There is a kind of doubling, a slightly shrill kazooing distortion in the crossover range between 650 and 800 Hz, right where a lot of the good music is. I sent the midrange to Ray V., and he couldn't find anything wrong. He had me check the woofer for delamination, which was fine. He suggested I send the midrange in again, and he would try a complete rebuild. I've just been waiting through the pandemic for the right time to send it in, as it only reveals itself above 70dB (listening position) or so. I do know that Vandersteen already repaired the mid in the right speaker, which was slightly burned out, leading me to believe that the left had also been in the wars at some point. 

Anyway, the point is that the new configuration sounds better, except in that sense.  Once I get them fixed, I may sell and upgrade to the IIIs. Been following  the comments on them on here. Eager to see reviews, though I rarely see reviewers do Vandersteens these days, except for the top models. It's all a big Klipsch, Spatial, KEF love fest out there! It's funny that Klipsch is being lauded for upgrading their heritage line, but there is no remarking in the audio press about the 2's basic design being almost a half century old, and in continuous production!

I want to thank you all for your input. It's really helped me to appreciate my stereo more. 

All best,

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

  

[GdnrBob]

@PaulB, If you can swing it, get the Treo's rather than the 3a sig's.

I started with the 3a sig's, but bought @ctsooner's Treo's. They were significantly more refined. I had them with a pair of 2wq's- now Sub 3's, and don't think I need to 'upgrade' for a while.

Bob

[PaulB]

I hear you Bob. I let a local pair of Treos slip by on auction. They went for $3300. Still haven't forgiven myself.  If I go new, I can only afford the 2 signature IIIs. Will keep a sharp lookout for Treos in the future. Don't want to pay TMR Audio's markup to 6K for used Treos (not even CT). 

[GdnrBob]

@PaulB,

TMR just listed a pair for $5300.  CT's, too.

Sounds fair to me.

Bob

Edited May 1, 2021 by GdnrBob

[TomicTime]

since you have the subs, consider also the VLR signature w carbon tweeter. on a good stand like sound anchors w dialed in subs they would make a very formidable setup....

[ctsooner]

Even the non signature version of the VLR is amazing.  I agree on giving that set up a listen as it could be amazing.  Let us know.

[GdnrBob]

I can attest to the VLR's. I own the non-CT's but they really sound great in my office.

Mine are located near the ceiling corners and act much like monitors, but listening to them at Audioconnection- on stands, and not with the best placement, and without subs.

Johnny streamed music through an Aurender into a Ayre Codex and into a Belles Aria Integrated using AQ William Tell cables. Those cables made the VLR's sing. And the bass was almost as if the sub 3 was connected. It was really one of those jaw dropping auditions.

Before I got the VLR's, I bought a pair of Zu Omen Bookshelf speakers. The Zu was good, but the Vandy's were better, despite their diminutive size. Corner placement really accentuates bass response- almost to the point that a subwoofer isn't really necessary. 

Bob

[ctsooner]

I think more folks would go for these if they were 'pushed'.  Richard knows his market though, but I never even had heard them before and once I did, I realized how darn good they are and that was the non CT version in Johnny's shop.  Just another bargain priced speaker for a high end speaker.  

[Steve Edwards]

On 4/30/2021 at 1:31 PM, PaulB said:

Steve, I now have an equilateral spread 7' apart, toed-in 1/2". Sounds pretty good.  It's sounds big, and that scale has benefits and costs. I also played with my 2wq's settings, and came to the conclusion that it's the bass level  in the recordings that ranges far more widely than anything to do with my setup, so I settled back to a tight Q and a sensitivity slightly above that rated for the 2ce Sigs. 

Hi Paul,

Yes, as systems get dialed in, more is exposed; not always for the good.  I agree that the bass level is the most inconsistent element of some recordings.  RV has commented on it numerous times.  It's why he suggests having 5 "reference" recordings; ones that you know like the back of your hand.  Then, you can make determinations on system / component tweaks much more accurately.

Bob, Jim and Peter have given you some good insight / suggestions.

Play on

[Richard Vandersteen]

On 4/30/2021 at 1:31 PM, PaulB said:

Dear all,

My apologies to all for the long radio silence.  There are the usual excuses, but I also wanted time to let the new spacing settle in.  AND, I purchased the Bosch measuring tool, which is almost too much fun. 

Steve, I now have an equilateral spread 7' apart, toed-in 1/2". Sounds pretty good.  It's sounds big, and that scale has benefits and costs. I also played with my 2wq's settings, and came to the conclusion that it's the bass level  in the recordings that ranges far more widely than anything to do with my setup, so I settled back to a tight Q and a sensitivity slightly above that rated for the 2ce Sigs. 

The new configuration has forced me to face something with my left speaker that I've been tolerating too long. There is a kind of doubling, a slightly shrill kazooing distortion in the crossover range between 650 and 800 Hz, right where a lot of the good music is. I sent the midrange to Ray V., and he couldn't find anything wrong. He had me check the woofer for delamination, which was fine. He suggested I send the midrange in again, and he would try a complete rebuild. I've just been waiting through the pandemic for the right time to send it in, as it only reveals itself above 70dB (listening position) or so. I do know that Vandersteen already repaired the mid in the right speaker, which was slightly burned out, leading me to believe that the left had also been in the wars at some point. 

Anyway, the point is that the new configuration sounds better, except in that sense.  Once I get them fixed, I may sell and upgrade to the IIIs. Been following  the comments on them on here. Eager to see reviews, though I rarely see reviewers do Vandersteens these days, except for the top models. It's all a big Klipsch, Spatial, KEF love fest out there! It's funny that Klipsch is being lauded for upgrading their heritage line, but there is no remarking in the audio press about the 2's basic design being almost a half century old, and in continuous production!

I want to thank you all for your input. It's really helped me to appreciate my stereo more. 

All best,

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

  

Paul,

We have sent product for review over the years but rarely when the product is new.  Our reviews are usually very positive but filling the pipeline and a rave review is a problem because of supply (remember every pair goes through a chamber to dial the crossover) causing customer frustrations.  Vandersteen's are popular with people who have enough confidence and discernment on their own selecting speakers they should invest in (the most significant personal decision one will make assembling a hi-fi because speakers vary dramatically  more than preamps/amplifiers and wires, etc) without the need for another's opinion.  This eliminates the influx of excessive used gear caused by people buying them because of a great review, this is not good for resale value.  Get a listen when you can, make up your own mind and don't hold your breath for a review as some of our products or versions have never been reviewed.  My personal method is to do the research, listen, listen again with my own music and if it works for me I purchase.  This protects me from remorse when somebody criticizes my choice.

RV

[ctsooner]

It's interesting when discussing the used market etc...  I rarely see high end or newer Vandersteen's, but I will see a ton of ads from the other well known makers.  It's partly because every time they make a capacitor upgrade or they ran out of supply on something and need to change vendors, they call it mk 2 or mk3.  What is the lifespan of a speaker from Wilson, Magico or many other named brands?  We all know that Richard will make upgrades constantly, but they are minor sound changes (teh same with mk2 and 3...  very very minor changes and not always for the best to my ears).  

The perfect example is that he finally went to mk3 sig on the 2's.  He decided to take the cumulative changes over the years and mesh them with a couple of major upgrades and voila! Mk3 Sig 2's that to my ear, you need to go to Treo's to get the biggest upgrade in sound.  The new 2's can be paired with some expensive electronics as they scale so well.  

More important to me is not how many reviews, but which reviewers own and love Vandersteen speakers in their personal systems, but aren't allowed to publish that info ;).....