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Excessive sibilants?? Simon & Garfunkel Box Set "Mrs. Robinson"


DC-93
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An older compilation, with 3 CDs and bonus tracks.

CD #3 starts with "Mrs Robinson."  I'm hearing excessive Sssssses on my 2CE Signature II speakers.  

"Ssssitting on the ssssofa on a Ssssunday afternoon, for instance.

Pulled out my Walsh 2 speakers and same thing.

Speakers with lesser resolution sound "better", in this one respect. 

 

Question:  Anyone have this recording?  Your opinion please?

 

  🔊

simon and gar.jpg

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Well I guess it is not a tracking or VTA por VTF problem…
A few LPs I have show sibilance, and when a CD does, it pretty much has to be the recording.

Maybe that is something that can be EQ’ed, if it is not actually clipping in the digital domain. 

======

Is it possible to get a digital file of that track? Like a .wav?
I am teaching a bit of an extra curricular course to a couple of younger work mates, and analysis of that track would be dandy example.

The other thing we are doing is taking three 45s from the late 50s and digitising them and producing one file which is essentially the best 2 out 3, where we exclude the scratches and pops from which ever LP is bad in that sections. There is a think called the “Plantagent process” but we do not know what that is doing.
Another chapter in the course is measuring noise and whether cleaning reduces the noice (numerically), and by how much…
(etc.)

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I just played an older CD called "Essentials"  Simon and G...... with Mrs. Robinson. I do hear the highs SSS's, TTTT,s recorded too boosted, but not undesirably so...not spitty, etc.  On the other hand, the bass drum sounds too week to really be a bass drum.  Its like listeninging in a very "live" room....not aggressive. I also have this song on LP:, but I just broke the belt.  By the way....after seeing this film, I got a red Alpha Romeo Duetta.... a mechanics friend....not mine.   They haven't changed...the new ones fall apart as well.

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4 hours ago, ctsooner said:

This is WHY I. Getting the Vandersteen preamp as soon as it comes out. The EQ controls will correct so many of my beloved 70-80-90’s rock. Ha 

But doesn't EQ change the signal? 

I see conflicting info on the net, so maybe the amount of distortion an EQ injects into the music can vary?   Probably not audible...

 

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2 hours ago, DC-93 said:

But doesn't EQ change the signal? 

 

Not to be overly rude, but it is the signal that sounds like ssssss-hit.

And if it sounds bad, then can it sound worse trying to fix it?
And the passive crossover in a speaker is doing as much or more EQ (as a filter), than a shelving filter in a preamp would be doing.

So we either play another song, or bitch about the recording… which was likely EQ’ed to death by the recording engineer anyhow… so unless it is well recorded (not 70-80-90s rock), then more or less EQ is probably better. (IMhO)

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The crossover filters (Vandersteen) are to keep things in phase, no?

Anything upstream, not so much.  

On less revealing speakers, the ssssss-hit, as you say, sounds ok, without any manipulation.  

Do some experimenting and let me know what your results are.   "Mrs. Robinson" is a great song, ssssss-hit included.  

 

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On 10/11/2022 at 6:05 PM, DC-93 said:

The crossover filters (Vandersteen) are to keep things in phase, no?

Correct, but a few other crossover schemes can also keep them in phase, they just seldom do, or seldom are used.

 

On 10/11/2022 at 6:05 PM, DC-93 said:

Anything upstream, not so much.  

The electronics are pretty much “ALWAYS” in the correct phase.
It is only speakers that jack it up, but maybe phono carts could do it??

 

On 10/11/2022 at 6:05 PM, DC-93 said:

On less revealing speakers, the ssssss-hit, as you say, sounds ok, without any manipulation.  

What exactly is “revealing”?

 

On 10/11/2022 at 6:05 PM, DC-93 said:

Do some experimenting and let me know what your results are.   "Mrs. Robinson" is a great song, ssssss-hit included.  

It sounds OK in a car, but less OK with IEMs and decent speakers.
I don’t like sibilance though.

I have a list of great songs, that are horrible recordings.
it is not uncommon.

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re·veal·ing
/rəˈvēliNG/
adjective
 
  1. making interesting or significant information known, especially about a person's attitude or character.
    "a revealing radio interview"
    • (of an item of clothing) allowing more of the wearer's body to be seen than is usual.
      "a very revealing dress"
       
       
       
      In this case, hearing more information embedded in the recording. Example:
       
      "My Vandersteen speakers reveal more music than my "fillintheblank" speakers. 
      I could hear the plucking of the double bass better!"  
       
      (true statement - "Man We Was Lonely", McCartney circa 1970)
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I know what the word itself means, but I never understand it in the context of speakers and their parameters.

A lot of people claim that the speakers need to be super high sensitivity to be revealing… like horns designed for sound reinforcement. Some of those people say that the Vandys are not revealing compared to other speakers, because they are not very sensitive.

It seems more like they are describing hysterysis as opposed to compression… but it also sounds like “the emperor’s new clothes” logic to me.

However I can look at a step function graph and see that Vandys and Dunlavys (etc.) are either right as rain or not so good.

But most of that has almost nothing to do with the recording itself. And as a tautology, most good recordings sound good on most systems and bad ones are also bad on modest systems.

 

The high sibilance songs usually trigger me to turn the volume down.

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Sensitivity has nothing to do with ability to hear into the music, IMO.     Personally, horn designs irritate me.  I had a Klipshorn driven by a 30 watt McIntosh mono amp.  Both were built in the early 50s.   Long gone.    

IMO, you can't hear what's NOT on a recording.  Better systems reveal more of the recording. The better recordings have more info on them.

A bad recording sounds bad on any system.   

When you speak of step functions, remember to include Walsh drivers.  I have a pair of thrift shop all original Walsh 2 speakers from 1982 that have amazing sound. Voices are exceptional.   

 

My reference for music is a live performance of a snare drum, violin, flute and banjo done by 4 guys in a field.  I was about 15 feet away. 

No wires, resistors or capacitors, etc. in the signal path!  😉   No reflections either.

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Even listening to that song on the iPad with Spotify via the Forrest Gump soundtrack, I felt like I needed a shower…
or that the iPad should be wearing an N95 mask. 😅

The crossover and flooring standing speakers will not likely help it.

 

Ssssssimon and Garfunk’zzzz’el
But it is still a good song, just a bit of too much sibilance to make it a great recording of a good song. (IMO)

Edited by Holmz
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Spot on.  I bought that tune new on a 45 when I was a kid. Paid .39 cents maybe??

Listened to it on my parents Sears Silvertone tubed phonograph.   It looked like a suitcase with detachable speakers.

Wish I could say if it had any excess "ssss", but I don't remember exactly!

 

 

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I just got back a new belt to replace the broken turntable part and compared the LP to the CD of Mrs. Robinson.    My Lp is from the soundtrack of "The Graduate"... the arrangement is different than the "commercial" CD.  The sound eq is about the same for both....elevated, but reasonable highs, and a bit reduced lows.....however....the walls just disappeared with the vinyl.....very big open sound with enormous depth....a thrilling listen.  I quess they used good tube stuff for recording this.

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