DAC's: Delta-Sigma or R2R?

[olds1959special]

What's your preference?

[GdnrBob]

Whatever sounds like the real thing.

B

[ctsooner]

There is no right or wrong.  It's all about implementation.  I have owned many DAC's over the years of all types.  Everything in digital is dependent on what goes into it.  We have multiple threads on this that you can join in on.  Clean power and a in sync signal (lowest jitter possible) are the of the most, if not the most important parts.  

You also have to keep in mind that some DAC's (like my Brinkmann) have 2 in one... one for PCM and a whole other one for  DSD.    File formatting is also important. I have north of 10T of high res music right now  (lost 20T with one back key stroke, but can get it back if I want to).  All of is in in WAV.  To me, in my system, WAV always has sounded better than FLAC.  Other's may like another format better.  

Don't get me started on external ethernet and USB 'conditioners', that can also make a large difference in quality. Also, with digital, it's not about tube vs no tube.  That can often be marketed as hype, but again implementation is THE most important thing.

JMHO

[Oregon]

Well, the Denafrips Ares 12th-1 R2R DAC is doing fine here in southern Oregon.

Edited April 11 by Oregon

[Bruskie]

I am close to purchasing an R2R, the MSB Discrete. It's the most natural (analog???) sounding DAC I've heard in my system, however, I've never listened to a tube DAC so I have  limited experience. The Discrete just sounded so sweet with natural timbre,  strong bass, nice soundstage....... I had it for 4 days over last weekend and was sold. I Liked it better than the; DCS Lina, Ayre QX5-20 and Chord Dave. I suppose I could have auditioned more DACs but after 4 days I just fell in love with it. 

This is the first DAC I could listen to for many hours w/o feeling fatigued and that is remarkable. And I did include some pretty strident recordings to see if I could live with it.  I was feeding the MSB with an Aurender N20 using both Siltech and Nordost AES digital cables and the clock input from the MSB using a Siltech BNC digital cable.

I HIGHLY recommend an audition. If you don't have a local dealer (as I didn't) call Vince Galbo (national sales manager), he is very obliging. 

I feel like I have finally gone over to the Dark Side   😂

Bruce

[GdnrBob]

Bruskie, if it sounds good, it is good. 

 

[Aaron]

@olds1959special there definitely is not a one-size-fits-all answer to R-2R vs. delta sigma...and that also ignores custom FPGA-based converters. A given technology is only a tool, and that tool can be used with varying results.  Also, the DA conversion of the DAC is only a portion of how it sounds. The output stage, power supply, reconstruction filter, clocking, etc all play important roles. Even generalizations about the sound of a specific DAC chip (e.g. ESS Sabre 9038PRO) aren't reliable depending on the overall DAC's design.

[Holmz]

I like the idea of an R2R, but I got an RME DAC, actually 2 of them now.
I am not a snob about digital, other than I like the allure of analogue…
(So I guess I am a snob)

The RME sounds about the same as the vinyl for most things.

Secondly…
The idea of objective data makes a lot of sense to me in terms of electronics.
Most of the difficulty IMO is to couple the electric energy into sound energy.
There are cabinet vibration, diffraction etc. on and on in layer of nuance.
(Confucius say: “Man who peal onion, he get watery eye”)

And on an analogue front end…  it is the arm, cart and table.

While the DAC can make some difference, I find usually the speakers make way more of a difference than the electronics.
You can almost run anything through, and into, the chain… and when it gets to the speaker, it will generally sound pretty good.
(I leave a 1/8” to RCA connected to occasionally stream from a phone or iPod/iPad and that too sounds scarily good.)

[ctsooner]

On 4/12/2024 at 12:34 AM, Bruskie said:

I am close to purchasing an R2R, the MSB Discrete. It's the most natural (analog???) sounding DAC I've heard in my system, however, I've never listened to a tube DAC so I have  limited experience. The Discrete just sounded so sweet with natural timbre,  strong bass, nice soundstage....... I had it for 4 days over last weekend and was sold. I Liked it better than the; DCS Lina, Ayre QX5-20 and Chord Dave. I suppose I could have auditioned more DACs but after 4 days I just fell in love with it. 

This is the first DAC I could listen to for many hours w/o feeling fatigued and that is remarkable. And I did include some pretty strident recordings to see if I could live with it.  I was feeding the MSB with an Aurender N20 using both Siltech and Nordost AES digital cables and the clock input from the MSB using a Siltech BNC digital cable.

I HIGHLY recommend an audition. If you don't have a local dealer (as I didn't) call Vince Galbo (national sales manager), he is very obliging. 

I feel like I have finally gone over to the Dark Side   😂

Bruce

So happy for you Bruce.  Did we ever talk about the MSB?  lol.  After I get the Vandersteen pre, I’ll be putting my Nyquist mk2 against the Discrete with the upgraded powerbase.  I have been hearing the MSB DAC’s since they came out.  So many different types of systems too and they always sound great.  I just feel more relaxed after a listening session with both my Brinkmann and the MSB DAC’s.  I think it’s because of the way they deal with jitter, so our brains don’t have to keep filling in the info etc…. I wish i was an engineer and understood more.  Great choice Bruce

[Holmz]

9 hours ago, ctsooner said:

I wish i was an engineer and understood more.

Be careful what one wishes for…
Engineers do not often parade around claiming to be Tonto GoldSteen.

[GdnrBob]

Who is Tonto Goldsteen? Or, is that one those 'Down Under' things...

B

[Bruskie]

Pete, I will eventually take a listen to the Premier power base to see if the upgrade from 2 Discrete PS is worth the $$. For now I plan on settling in with it for a while. I am really excited for this. 

[ctsooner]

You should be. I’m  So happy for you Bruce. I need to get to Jonny and bring the Brinkman’s. He has two I’m going to audition. I really want to hear the Grimm too, but I’d highly doubt it’s near the MSB. 

[Bruskie]

Let me know what you think Pete. My order is going in on Monday after my surgery  Friday. New shoulder this time.

I'm like an old classic car, I run get on new parts!  Six weeks in a sling so I won't be able to use my TT,  but this MSB will get me through 😎

[GdnrBob]

17 hours ago, Bruskie said:

 Six weeks in a sling so I won't be able to use my TT,  but this MSB will get me through

You might be surprised at how easy using a digital source is vs. a TT. I grew up with a TT, and now find using digital is more fun than I ever had. Plus, Qobuz will play music that it's AI thinks I will like. Most times I agree, and have discovered music I never considered before.

 

Bob

[ctsooner]

On 4/30/2024 at 11:16 PM, Bruskie said:

Let me know what you think Pete. My order is going in on Monday after my surgery  Friday. New shoulder this time.

I'm like an old classic car, I run get on new parts!  Six weeks in a sling so I won't be able to use my TT,  but this MSB will get me through 😎

Be well Bruce. Good luck. Remember you can do verbal posts over here.  Ha. I told Rutan for years to bring in the MSB line. He didn’t have it when I bought. I love the Brinkman ,  but I’m. It sure how it compares to the Discrete. I have a ,oval dealer here who sells MSB. I may go pay him a visit with the Brinkmann.  

[Aaron]

On 4/16/2024 at 7:40 PM, Holmz said:

I like the idea of an R2R, but I got an RME DAC, actually 2 of them now.

You can improve the performance of the RME by replacing the wall wart power supply with a good linear power supply. I like the Ferrum Hypsos. It sounds great and is adjustable and with enough power to drive pretty much anything (up to 30V / 6A), so you can always repurpose it for another component in the future. Humorously RME has denied that a better power supply can improve the sound, but they just released an upgraded power supply. Go figure.

[Isotonic]

I'm super pleased with my Octo Research DAC 8. I still get lots of surprises when streaming. Beautiful. My system includes: Dell mini computer > Octo Dac8 > Pass X0.5 > Audio Research 100.2 > Vandersteen Quatro Wood CT. The gentleman who installed my Quatro's asked about it.