IC speakers and a pair of V2W subs

[Karlos]

My main system uses Quatro Woods and M5-HPAs.  I also have a 5.2 home theater system with 1C as the front mains and V2Ws as the subwoofers. I have been listening to the 1Cs with a Marantz 8 tube amp and a Bel Canto E1X PRE/DAC.  The later has sub outs at the RCA line level.  The PRE/DAC allows for rolling off the bass to the mains with a 2nd order filter starting at 120 Hz and adjustable down to 20 Hz in 10 Hz increments.  The frequency output to the subwoofer can also be low passed at the same frequency intervals.  The overall sub output can also be adjusted. Super flexible.

I realize this is different than the first order filters used by Vandersteen.  But I am wondering if any of you have used the IC with subs and what settings you found the best for musical integration? 

For example, should I set the low pass filter to the subs and the high pass filter to the mains at the same frequency? I would assume that the higher frequencies I use for the the main speakers the less strain I put on the tube amp but the more the sub will contribute to the character of the sound.  

I should state that I really love the sound of the 1C with the Marantz.  I'm just looking to support the bottom octave and maybe free up the woofer on the 1Cs.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Holmz]

I would work on the 2-channel side.
The 2nd order filter in the preamp, may not work as well as a 1st order Vandy HPF, with Vandy speakers.
You would need a mic and something like (REW) to do measurement in the frequency domain…  the transient response in the time domain is usually also “tighter” with a 1st order.

I think you just need to d_ck around and try some combos.
If it doesn’t work in the frequency domain then scrap that scheme.

One could run a different setup for HT 5.2 , as the subs are usually louder, and the visuals are distracting one from the sound.

That’s all just my opinion though.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Holmz

[GdnrBob]

Aren't the V2W's made for home theater? I would guess their output would be different from the 2WQ's and Sub 3.

B

[Karlos]

Thanks gentlemen.  To clarify, I am not trying to combine the home theater and 2 channel.  Just using the subs and the 1C speakers from the HT setup.  It is easy to plug things back into the HT processor (which uses Audyssey).  The V2W's are made for home theater and work well with HT processors. But they also should work well here as the Bel Canto RCA sub outputs. 

Again, I am just trying to use what I have in a fun tube based system.  

I will continue to experiment but appreciate any suggestions. 

[GdnrBob]

6 hours ago, Karlos said:

Again, I am just trying to use what I have in a fun tube based system.  

I know, but if the v2w's output is different from, say the 2wq/Sub 3, it might be difficult to dial in.

Just sayin'

Bob

[Holmz]

@Karlos do you also have the Vandy HPF ?

You kind of have 2 choices:

1. Run the Vandy HPF (Which should have the right slope for blending with the 1C)
2. Run the sub outputs from the Bel Canto (Which could be better for HT if the bass effects are really going hard at it.)

If the Bel Canto has a different slope crossover, then that could produce a suck out at some frequency where they overlap with the 1C.
One could maybe use a sharp pencil, but a mic and measurements are usually the go to way to approach it.

 

[Richard Vandersteen]

On 11/22/2023 at 3:26 PM, Karlos said:

My main system uses Quatro Woods and M5-HPAs.  I also have a 5.2 home theater system with 1C as the front mains and V2Ws as the subwoofers. I have been listening to the 1Cs with a Marantz 8 tube amp and a Bel Canto E1X PRE/DAC.  The later has sub outs at the RCA line level.  The PRE/DAC allows for rolling off the bass to the mains with a 2nd order filter starting at 120 Hz and adjustable down to 20 Hz in 10 Hz increments.  The frequency output to the subwoofer can also be low passed at the same frequency intervals.  The overall sub output can also be adjusted. Super flexible.

I realize this is different than the first order filters used by Vandersteen.  But I am wondering if any of you have used the IC with subs and what settings you found the best for musical integration? 

For example, should I set the low pass filter to the subs and the high pass filter to the mains at the same frequency? I would assume that the higher frequencies I use for the the main speakers the less strain I put on the tube amp but the more the sub will contribute to the character of the sound.  

I should state that I really love the sound of the 1C with the Marantz.  I'm just looking to support the bottom octave and maybe free up the woofer on the 1Cs.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Karlos, the V2w is designed for use with the Low Pass crossover of a HT processor as it does not have one installed.  You would get too much voice and midrange out of the sub.  If you put your HT receiver into 2 channel bypass it would work.  RV

[Karlos]

Thanks Richard!  The Bel Canto RCA sub outs can be set as a low pass filter starting at 120 Hz down to 40 Hz in 10Hz increments.  So the V2W won’t be getting midrange signals. This is just like my HT receiver which I avoid using for Hifi.

Knowing this, do I set the LP for the sub to start at 100Hz? 80Hz?  If setting the sub LP at the these Hz, do I then also roll of the bass signals sent to the tube amp (the Bel Canto can also do this, so no need to use an additional high pass filter between preamp and Amp). Would you match the set points? 100hz and below to subs, 100hz and higher to the tube amp/1C?  I don’t have control that both filters are second order, just what frequencies to start the roll off.

 

Thanks and apologies if I’m missing something.

[Richard Vandersteen]

13 hours ago, Karlos said:

Thanks Richard!  The Bel Canto RCA sub outs can be set as a low pass filter starting at 120 Hz down to 40 Hz in 10Hz increments.  So the V2W won’t be getting midrange signals. This is just like my HT receiver which I avoid using for Hifi.

Knowing this, do I set the LP for the sub to start at 100Hz? 80Hz?  If setting the sub LP at the these Hz, do I then also roll of the bass signals sent to the tube amp (the Bel Canto can also do this, so no need to use an additional high pass filter between preamp and Amp). Would you match the set points? 100hz and below to subs, 100hz and higher to the tube amp/1C?  I don’t have control that both filters are second order, just what frequencies to start the roll off.

 

Thanks and apologies if I’m missing something.

A crossover is defined by having a high-pass and low-pass and for Vandersteen speakers both would be 80Hz 6 dB per octave Butterworth.  RV

[Karlos]

I will give that a try.  Thanks all!

[Karlos]

Just a quick follow up. After several listening sessions with the Bel Canto/IC/V2W combo, I've been using 60 Hz as a crossover point for the subs and speakers.  This sounds the most integrated to my ears where I dont "hear" the subs but experience them through a deeper and fuller soundstage.  I will keep experimenting. I have a new Decware Torii Mk IV amp that is blowing my mind in this setup. The ICs are so good!

 

-Karl

[stratocaster]

1 hour ago, Karlos said:

 The ICs are so good!

 

-Karl

I have been using mine since 1999 and they are one set of utterly capable and rowdy speakers that can be gentle and polite when pushed  by equipment that's in multiple's as far as price point is concerned. Currently they are serving as mains in my home theater setup accompanied by a V2W and even boring channels sound great with them....