Contour controls

[olds1959special]

How do you have your contour controls set? I use 2Ci's.

I use +1 dB tweeter, -1 dB midrange

I recently discovered this works better than simply boosting the tweeter.

 

Edited March 31 by olds1959special

[GdnrBob]

It probably depends more on the room conditions than anything else, as well as the equipment used.

Bob

[olds1959special]

https://www.stereophile.com/content/vandersteen-2c-loudspeaker-measurements

"I found a touch of lift in the high treble (tweeter set to +1dB) to be necessary to counteract the speaker's slight lack of off-axis air; this has to be balanced, however, against exaggerating the excess of HF energy above 10kHz. Though this might then be thought to leave the midrange a little depressed, I nevertheless found -1dB on the midrange control to give the optimal balance between the need for sufficient high-midrange energy and not to unduly emphasize the speaker's uneven response in the same region. This will be different for every listening environment and system, however. "

[Richard Vandersteen]

16 hours ago, olds1959special said:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/vandersteen-2c-loudspeaker-measurements

"I found a touch of lift in the high treble (tweeter set to +1dB) to be necessary to counteract the speaker's slight lack of off-axis air; this has to be balanced, however, against exaggerating the excess of HF energy above 10kHz. Though this might then be thought to leave the midrange a little depressed, I nevertheless found -1dB on the midrange control to give the optimal balance between the need for sufficient high-midrange energy and not to unduly emphasize the speaker's uneven response in the same region. This will be different for every listening environment and system, however. "

Stereophile's measurements are not accurate because John is fair to everyone and puts the microphone on the tweeter axis.  The only problem is this is not where the Vandersteen alignment wants the listeners ears!  John himself has written several times that his measurements are not like the measurement I send him (when reviewing our upper end products which have actual measurements included with the speaker) but they would match if he measured them where his ears are after I set them up.  None of our speakers are designed to be listened to on tweeter axis.  RV

[ctsooner]

Great stuff Richard.  Thanks.  I've just never been an EQ guy, other than in my cars.  I had a really special set up in my first car (new Mazda 626 with upgraded 15" black rims).  I was a newly minted Navy Ensign and stationed in San Dog (I drove the USS Kitty Hawk or Sh!tty K!tty for short).  I went to a high end mobile audio store just a few doors down from Stereo Unlimited (Bruce's place).  I had all Zapco amps and EQ.  We cut for all separate speakers and a sub in the trunk, which was rare in 83.  The system cost over 4k and the car was purchased a few months prior for 10,250 total.  It was my Ensign mobile and we partied on the beach with it constantly.  

Some of these threads bring back memories.  

For the home system, I was given an EQ for my system before I went to college, but I took it out as I didn't like what it did to the music.  I used one at times when I was a DJ, but even then, I just cranked it up for everyone to get their groove on.  For home it was my CJ PV?, Roberson and or Harvey's Moscode amp modified and Polk 10 Monitors with the Polk speaker cables on stands.  TT was a Sota I also got from Bruce.  Wish I still had it.  That's the first time I met Richard as he and Bruce were in the back room setting up the 2's.  I was mesmorized by the sound.  

 

Back to the EQ talk.  🙂.  

[olds1959special]

Regarding the aforementioned contour control adjustment on my 2Ci's, I previously found a benefit from turning up the tweeter by 1dB or so. But I never thought to also decrease the midrange by the same amount.

It seems to almost create something like a U-shape similar to the frequency response of some speakers and headphones, creating more of an emphasis on bass and highs with less midrange. I feel these speakers are bass heavy by nature, so adding the tweeter boost helps, with the accompanying midrange reduction for overall balance and clarity.

That's just my experience though. I really like what this adjustment does for my 2Ci's.

[Oregon]

Decades past, receivers/integrated amps, those crap sounding SS buzz boxes. I had one, a Pioneer SA-9500. That thing  benefited from a Soundcraftsman EQ ( made in California ) or a Vector Research EQ, ( early China stuff ). Had an MXR 1/3-octave passive EQ in my Pro audio days. Said EQs provided both the ability to affect tone and introduce more SS AC line buzz into the stereo. These days, EQ is largely handled through equipment choice, tube rolling, or, environment.

Cody

[olds1959special]

Right now I'm testing a different dac which is very unlike my previous one, (lean, bright vs warm and fuzzy) and I found setting the contour controls on the speakers to flat helped tame the sound. I am happier knowing the speakers response is not altered if that's possible.

Edited April 13 by olds1959special

[olds1959special]

I couldn't live with the speakers flat for more than a few days, especially after going back to my old source component. Now I'm trying boosting my tweeter by 2db and dropping midrange by 0.5db.

This is a fun way to listen. It's like pumping up the treble a notch from before where I had it at -1db midrange and +1db tweeter. The 0.5db drop in the midrange keeps the sound cleaner to my ears.

Edited April 17 by olds1959special

[olds1959special]

I just had to report, that I am very pleased with the sound of my Vandersteen's when they are completely FLAT. With the right components, cables, etc. I feel like I am having a supreme audio experience listening to them.  My room is not terrible from an acoustic standpoint, there are some live surfaces, and some furniture to absorb sound, and enough open space. I'm no longer using any tubes in the signal path. Playing now is Billie Holiday's "Recital" on Verve, and it sounds great. My EQ is relegated to boosting treble for TV watching only.

Edited April 22 by olds1959special

[ctsooner]

Great to hear and not surprised. Richard’s pre will be the only EQ I can see working. It’s out of the signal path somehow. He always figures these things out. Bass, EQ etc. no one else. Others to try and he gets patents. Go figure and THANKS. 

[olds1959special]

Is it okay to max out the contour controls to compensate for a slightly less powerful amp on one set of drivers?

Edited May 24 by olds1959special

[Richard Vandersteen]

5 minutes ago, olds1959special said:

Is it okay to max out the contour controls to compensate for a slightly less powerful amp on one set of drivers?

It is OK as it won't do any damage but remember they are "Contour Controls" not level controls!  Turning them up does not lift all frequencies equally but DIY guys get by with stuff they like because it's their stuff.  You can always put them back where they belong if it doesn't work out.  RV

[absherro]

On 4/1/2024 at 12:06 AM, olds1959special said:

How do you have your contour controls set? I use 2Ci's.

I use +1 dB tweeter, -1 dB midrange

I recently discovered this works better than simply boosting the tweeter.

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Edited June 7 by absherro

[olds1959special]

On 6/7/2024 at 7:17 AM, absherro said:

Thanks for the information!

I just got 2Ce Sig II's and am trying these same contour control settings. 

+1 dB Tweeter, -1dB Midrange

It's sounding good right now.

[olds1959special]

I started to notice some fatigue and aggravation of my tinnitus from my system so I set the contour controls to flat. I also changed the dac filter to linear phase fast roll off, to get a baseline.

[olds1959special]

I can confirm that the elevated treble from boosting the tweeter was causing the issue.

[Holmz]

9 hours ago, olds1959special said:

I can confirm that the elevated treble from boosting the tweeter was causing the issue.

It is possible for some ADHD like listening to also be an issue.
I am not sure how common it is, but I once had that, and started to get a worbling sound on vacation.
Went to see an audiologist, and she did some work, and said, “Do you work in the recording industry?”
I said, “No why/“
She said, “I have only see seen thins in people who work professionally and listen real intently to music.”

Something to do with the tympanic muscle being able to be relaxed when listening… as it usually tightens up to serve as some mechanical form of compression to allow for more dynamic range.
Sometimes if the music sounds really good, it is better to “not try so hard to enjoy it”, so I started to half heartedly listen.

It probably was the elevated tweeter, so you should be OK.