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CDs, Roon, and TDAI 1120?


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I’ve been looking at a variety of CD players and DACs.

It seems more confusing than a  bunch of ones and zeros should be.

Has anyone used a Lyngdorf TDAI 1120?
I am assuming would need a “Roon Core” elsewhere, and then the 1120 would be a “Roon end point”?

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Streaming music is a world unto itself.

No experience with Lyngdorf. 

Is there a reason why you chose Lyngdorf?

Do you want an integrated amp with room correction, or a CD Player or a DAC?

 

As far as Roon goes, my PC is my core and my Innous Zen is my endpoint. If you don't want to use a PC, then you can buy a Roon Core.

Bob

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OK……at work I had an IT department, now I are ONE…..argh…

Now i am responsible for junk way outa my depth, but here goes…

Yes, even tho it is One’s and Zeros, details matter…a LOT…best to think of it as One volt or Five volts….and noise, and jitter, and….and….

I prefer a stand alone DAC, Server, NAS, and Streamer….that solution set is the high end, expensive and kind of a royal PITA… There are beginning to be clear sonic and ease of use and upgrade advantages to various combinations of the above.

A very key decision point is how important is ownership of media important to you vs streaming it ? Sonic differences aside. 

ROON is it’s own unique experience, maybe sounds better than other Software in certain versions, loses edge, regains it….

So far the end user experience is the best, others chase ROON in that respect, gap narrowing…

ROON core imo runs best on a dedicated box. The least expensive is a Intel NUC you build yourself, lots of tips on this at ROON site, size it right for the job. Next are tge two ROON boxes, personally i think they at solid value. Also, if the box does not play well w software, one butt to kick…

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3 hours ago, GdnrBob said:

Streaming music is a world unto itself.

No experience with Lyngdorf. 

Is there a reason why you chose Lyngdorf?

Well I found a used Lyngdorf AVR, and needed some way to get the audio separated from the video.
It looks easy, and also WAF acceptable.

 

 

3 hours ago, GdnrBob said:

Do you want an integrated amp with room correction, or a CD Player or a DAC?

I thought I wanted a separate CD-Transport and DAC, but I am thinking it should be easy… and the Mrs will probably like the Roon better for background listening. 

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2 hours ago, TomicTime said:

Another important decision is DSP…… IF you have the computing horsepower to do this in ROON, try it out….listen, make up your own mind…..

Jim,

The AVR does Room Perfect, so it sort has the DSP in it.
But I do have another DSP that I would like to try. And going out the Tape-In and back out of the DSP into the Pre-Amp via the Tape-Out.
Then I can do two channel all in the normal 2-channel chain of gear.

Or I can do the AVR into the the two channel, as the TV input switch. And also do the other AVR channels with the AVR.

  • Will likely use some Class-D Hypex plates for the center and surrounds. 
  • But will keep the Vandy Sub on the 2 channel… and just add 2 more on the AVR side, tuned pretty low.
  • I need to try a 6th order bandpass, sealed, and normal bass reflex. I have some 12” “Passive Radiators” (PRs), so I can try them as well.
    • Two Thiel 12” subs and 2x EarthQuake PRs
  • And I should be able to measure the various responses and group delays and then once i am done, make boxes that are more presentable than old scraps of black Form-Board, and screws that the test boxes will be enjoying.
  • The assumes that the AVR can delay and do the correction on the subs… Or I do the DSP  in the Hypex using (IIR) All-Pass filters to tame group-delay.
    • That would also mean that I would need to add delay on the FIR DSP if I wanted to use them on the 2 channel side.

Too many moving parts to know without making some gear and testing it.

So the first thing is the AVR arriving in town, get the Roon Rock ordered (and set up), and start wiring together things and “having a go”.

Randal

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i am just a two channel dude….outa my depth when asked about anything..more…..complex…

Always fall back and check musicality against simple but hyper well setup analog 2 channel rig… evaluate sonics from that baseline…

SO factors are the domain of relationship counselor, furniture salesperson and sometimes divorce attorneys… ha.

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@Holmz,

You really are going at this full steam.

IMHO, separating DAC and CD player is the way to go, as DAC technology is moving fast-What is great now, will be leftovers tomorrow.

Also, IMHO, DSP is a great concept, but way too simple for such a complicated issue. But, don't listen to me. 

I believe everyone should try as many things as possible (-excepting incest).🤭

B

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1 hour ago, GdnrBob said:

@Holmz,

You really are going at this full steam.

IMHO, separating DAC and CD player is the way to go, as DAC technology is moving fast-What is great now, will be leftovers tomorrow.

Also, IMHO, DSP is a great concept, but way too simple for such a complicated issue. But, don't listen to me. 

Well I am going at it full steam just in terms of understanding…
Leaning towards Roon. I do not have the TDAI-1120, but it is the 2-channel example of the room correction that I get with the AVR and  “Roon End-Point”.

The transport and DAC are probably sonically better, but it would be for digital listening and it’s like the Dead Kennedy’s album, “Give me convenience OR give me death”.

And as I have that in the AVR, it pretty much does most of what I want, and manages the CD collection in files.

Then I can use the TT more for listening attentively.

 

5 hours ago, TomicTime said:

i am just a two channel dude….outa my depth when asked about anything..more…..complex…

Always fall back and check musicality against simple but hyper well setup analog 2 channel rig… evaluate sonics from that baseline…

SO factors are the domain of relationship counselor, furniture salesperson and sometimes divorce attorneys… ha.

Well the Room Correction inside of the AVR does the low frequency part, and there is only so much I can do in the room without needing a divorce attorney.
This gets us closer to audio perfection, without the counsellor?

But I am still getting head around how to do the 2.x 
It is likely going to be with a switch to avoid powering on the centre channel, and VSMs… Hence I have a lot of wiring “work” to sort out integrating the AVR in... But that TV watching is also 80% of the use.

And I’ll have to see how good or bad the effects of DSP are on the sound. I suspect it would be great on the surface, until one listens closely? But then again, just watching NetFlix it’s almost spooky how the 2Cs generally disappear just streaming NetFlix and taking L/R component back into the 2.1 currently. It is quite impressive IMO.

36865CDA-DA62-427B-9457-2899161E56EC.jpeg

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I'm not a digital correction guy.  I do like it when in analog (what Vandersteen does).  That said, I am very familiar with they products.  I have enjoyed them at my local dealer on many occasions. They build a nice piece for a fair price. I don't know enough about the video part of the equation.  Wish I did.  Keep us posted.

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4 hours ago, ctsooner said:

I'm not a digital correction guy.  I do like it when in analog (what Vandersteen does).  That said, I am very familiar with they products.  I have enjoyed them at my local dealer on many occasions. They build a nice piece for a fair price. I don't know enough about the video part of the equation.  Wish I did.  Keep us posted.

There is a lot of magic in it (especially with multirate processing) and in the <200-300 Hz region it is a no brainer to consider using a DSP on a sub/woofer channel.

it is not as cheap and easy as room placement, but the two together make a lot of sense to me.

The analogue filter and sub make sense too. The main disadvantage there may be that one needs a sealed enclosure and sub woofers with lower distortion. So cost would be higher, and more efficient box designs are out the window with group delay. But one gets rid of a lot of signal excursion on the amplifier. So it is somewhat elegant on a music system. Just on an AVR system, the sub and LFE channels seem to dominate things, and also certain gendres of music may be somewhat “beyond” musical in lower frequency SPL.

So I’ll basically keep the V-sub where it is, and add in some homebrew boxes for the AVR side. At least that is my plan starting out.

 

2 hours ago, GdnrBob said:

Wow, the Dead Kennedy's bring back memories of Manhattan lamp posts adorned with their logo of a black cross with The Dead Kennedy's printed under it. And, they were posted for dozens of blocks at a time.

It was kinda creepy, to say the least.

B

I am not a huge fan of theirs, but it is good stuff on a long drive in combination with caffeine to keep awake.

Edited by Holmz
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1 hour ago, ctsooner said:

I may be wrong, but I thought that using DSP ruins the time and phase correct deal.  Jim?  Richard? Brad?  Dealers?  As I said, I do like the Lyngdorf amps.

I’ll let the experts opine, but my perceptions are…

  • The point of the <200-300 Hz mention, was that one can use the DSP just on the lower frequencies. And one can pass the high frequencies just like the Vandy cross over does in an analogue sense.
  • Then the sub channel, or even the woofer, can  have the amplitude part EQ’ed, as well as Time domain EQed, and also the phase EQ’ed if using a FIR or or a large extent using ALLPASS in an IIR. 
    • That said, the high frequency part may need to be time delayed, so it is either a lot of end user work, or it is all done in the manufacturing/engineering.
  • I appears like the Quatros,  Kentos, and Sevens appear to be conceptually along these lines of an EQ’ed and balanced system. Just that they designed so that the time and phase EQ is not needed (?)... just amplitude.

The Lyngdorf,Dutch-and-Dutch speakers, etc., are appearing to be more of a “full on” DSP approach. So maybe the imaging gets smeared?

That is sort of why I want to be able to keep the 2.1 sort of pure compared to the 5.x side.

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  • 8 months later...

I got an RME ADI-2 Pro DAC and ADC (Analogue to Digital Converter).
Took a few days faffin about to realise that the new USB cord was not working, so I picked up another one today and was able to reflash the firmware.
And I had picked up an 1/8” headphone to RCA cable to plug my iPad into the system.

I noticed that there was a lot of computer noise happening, and it was also bad on the TV input
I removed the iPad cable and the noise did not go away.
Finally I removed the USB and the system went quiet.

Since I had teh computer on another jack, I moved to the same power strip as the audio gear.
But the noise is still there, and it is not subtle.
Computer is a MacBook.

What do people use as computers that are not noisy?
(I have an Intel NUC, which has windows on it, that I can try… But there must be some solution for this sort of stuff.).

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I had a top DAC designer give me his Mac mini that he made into a server.  He used it at all the shows.  He built a great power supply to mate the unit and keep power as clean as it gets.  The computer was never online, unless I wanted to use the streamer.  He programmed it to turn off any program that didn't need to be on behind the scenes.  That was a quiet unit and sounded as good or better than any of the 10k Servers back in the day.  My server/streamer that I use now, also turns off all programs not needed during usage.  

Even with that, upgrading the power cord has made a huge difference.  I also upgraded to the AQ ethernet and USB cable to the Diamond cables and it's made a huge difference in a blacker background (less noise).

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I made a set of XLR cables and connected the RME’s output to the preamp.
About 1 foot long on each lead..

All the buzzy noise when away, so I am guessing it is better grounded with the XLR shell (pin1) and the fat wad of copper shielding on the Mogami IC cord?

The RCAs were stuffed back into the analogue input.
And the input level also dropped from ~ 50 dB to -80 dB.
It should probably be a lot lower, but it is a great start.

And I was even was able to play an iTune song out, I just need to figure out how adjust the output level, but it is working to an extent at least…

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