DC-93 Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 Thinking of a possible upgrade. I now have 2CE Signature II speakers made in 2010. The new Signature III speakers have the woven midrange, no level controls and improved crossover. Did you hear a difference making it worthwhile? I'm retired and on a fixed income so I have to be a bit frugal! Thanks for any and all replies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted November 5, 2021 Share Posted November 5, 2021 What does the rest of your system consist of? If there's nothing wrong with your 2CE Signature IIs, you are probably further ahead spending money elsewhere in the system. I had the same speakers and used them with a variety of electronics (Arcam, Audio Research, Quicksilver, CAT) and front ends (Arcam, Naim, Clearaudio, Linn). They always rose to the occasion. If you have a tube amp, try them on the 8 ohm taps. I thought mine sounded better that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC-93 Posted November 6, 2021 Author Share Posted November 6, 2021 I've been rolling vintage KLH 6, 17 and 23 and Ohm H speakers through my system lately, after I restored them. Currently, using my Carver TFM35x and a CT-23. I'm original owner! Also have: McIntosh MAC 1900, Marantz 2230, 2270, 2325. Parasound HCA1000A. Dynaco PAS, Bogen RP-230, Bogen DS-265, Technics SA-500. My McIntosh MAC 1200 will be back shortly from getting tuned up at Audio Classics. Tubes have a "sound" and solid state has it's "sound". I think the biggest audible differences are in speakers and stuff like cartridges and source material. I replaced a Shure V-15, Type III with a Denon DL-160 high output coil and it was an audible improvement. I like MFSL and DCC cds. Also, MFSL LPs. Sheffield Sound Labs has great stuff! The MFSL Beatles Box Set of LPs was a nice purchase off ebay 10 years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctsooner Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 The newer speakers are just much better in every aspect. Richard would never come up with a new mk whatever unless it was very audible. Worth it IF you can handle it. I agree it’s speakers and source and pre above others. Jmho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 The equipment summary is helpful. However, what turntable and tonearm do you have, and what are you using for a CD player? You still might be better off optimizing this end of things first. There's a lot of truth to the old Linn philosophy of the turntable (in an LP-playing system) being the most important piece, then the tonearm, then the cartridge. That's been my experience every time. The same goes for CD playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmz Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 8 hours ago, Moose said: The equipment summary is helpful. However, what turntable and tonearm do you have, and what are you using for a CD player? You still might be better off optimizing this end of things first. There's a lot of truth to the old Linn philosophy of the turntable (in an LP-playing system) being the most important piece, then the tonearm, then the cartridge. That's been my experience every time. The same goes for CD playing. That digital side is a whole nother rabbit hole. (I am probably going to do Roon on a NUC. So many be I am low-fi? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boom Boom Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 Hi, I recently upgraded to Model 2Ce Sig 3s but from 2Cs. The Sig 2s should sound more similar to the Sig 3's. The bass was better in my upgrade, but the Sig 2s would likely sound closer to the sig 3s. Like your Sig 2s my 2Cs had the adjustable output controls. If you putz around with those as I did, I ended up not setting these to flat. I used male opera recordings to make the adjustments. If you want to look into upgrading to Sig 3s you have to listen to them with music you are familiar with that is hard to reproduce accurately. I auditioned the Sig 3s at the dealer and when I got them home, they sounded better. I don't miss the output level switches. Overall the sound is better. Can't help but notice that opera recordings sound better, smoother, clearer. Massed vocals in choirs also sound better, clearer, individual voices more distinct. Loud symphony passages with both strings and brass sections playing are better delineated. It's a thrill to hear the differences in timber for the instruments more clearly. As for upgrading my digital front end, upgrading my DAC brought out a much lower noise floor. PCM reproduction is better and my new DAC will do 4xDSD. Quite happy with that upgrade too. Back in the day, I upgraded from a Shure V15 cartridge to a Talisman Sapphire. It was in a different league, but I also upgraded my TT and arm setup which also were in a different league than my previous setup. Cheers! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC-93 Posted November 7, 2021 Author Share Posted November 7, 2021 (edited) 21 hours ago, Moose said: The equipment summary is helpful. However, what turntable and tonearm do you have, and what are you using for a CD player? You still might be better off optimizing this end of things first. There's a lot of truth to the old Linn philosophy of the turntable (in an LP-playing system) being the most important piece, then the tonearm, then the cartridge. That's been my experience every time. The same goes for CD playing. I have a Technics SL-1100 and a Rega Planet II. Thanks Boom Boom for your answer! Quote Edited November 7, 2021 by DC-93 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 I definitely think you should raise your phono game. Those are "do no harm" turntables. You aren't hearing what your cartridge can do, and you aren't getting the quiet background and 3-D reproduction that's possible. There are lots of good turntables and tonearms out there, and, if you are patient and don't mind used equipment, you can get them at about half the price. The Analog Shop just had a Clearaudio Performance DC with a Satisfy tonearm for $2300. Or, a used Acoustic Signature WOW XL with a Rega RB303 tonearm for $1500. Sell the Rega. This kind of move will be a much bigger improvement than upgrading to the new 2 Signature III. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC-93 Posted November 7, 2021 Author Share Posted November 7, 2021 Oddly enough, my background is all black, nothing there between the voices and instruments, which hang in space. All this with a used, 1970s era turntable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC-93 Posted November 7, 2021 Author Share Posted November 7, 2021 My turntable was a $50. bargain, for sure! Used the correct mineral oil for the spindle. My home made audio rack is on the right. Threaded rod, nuts and washers, MFD board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 I used threaded rod racks for years! Then, I bought a used Grand Prix Monaco rack a few years ago and there's no turning back. There's a big improvement to be had there, too. I'm not trying to ding your system. You asked about a speaker upgrade, and I feel your money can be spent more effectively elsewhere. I had similar-level turntable to what you have, and bought a used Linn LP-12/Ittok LVII in 1983 and put my then-current cartridge on it. The improvement was staggering. It was by far the nicest component in my system at the time, and I had it up until a couple of years ago (upgraded over time). Although, by the time I got rid of it, I think the only original part was the platter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctsooner Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 My take away is system synergy. What works for one may not work for others. I agree that a source upgrade can be large. This is why we need dealers to visit. The only true way to tell is auditioning. No substitute. The opposite keeps Audiogon and the Audio marts in business,but it’s got too many chasing their tails. that’s what I like about this board. We all know what we hear. We share and we can get a sense about things ,but still not nail it until we audition. Not always easy to get out to do that of course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Edwards Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 17 hours ago, Moose said: I had similar-level turntable to what you have, and bought a used Linn LP-12/Ittok LVII in 1983 and put my then-current cartridge on it. The improvement was staggering. It was by far the nicest component in my system at the time, and I had it up until a couple of years ago (upgraded over time). Although, by the time I got rid of it, I think the only original part was the platter. Moose, I also have a Linn LP-12/Ittok LVII/Lingo/Trampolin II. Curious what you replaced yours with and what / how much of an improvement was it? What cartridge are you currently using? Play on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 Hi Steve: I last had a Benz Micro Ruby ZH on it. The 'table had the Valhalla circuit board originally. Around 1995 I discovered my plinth had cracked. I replaced it with a Woodsong plinth, and did the trampolin/Lingo upgrade. That was nice! In 2011 I bought a Clearaudio Innovation Wood, with a Graham Phantom II tonearm, and Benz Gullwing cartridge. That smoked my Linn (better speed stability, quieter background, deeper bass), which went into a 2nd system. Around 2015 I was auditioning speakers (Vandersteen Quatro Wood CTs) at Overture Audio, and they had the best sounding LP12 I'd ever heard. I would up doing the Keel/Radikal/Ekos SE upgrade. That really made it competitive with my other turntable setup. I sold both in 2020 and went on with some other things. While I liked the fully-loaded Linn, it was still kind of tweaky, and it's missing VTA on the fly, which is nice. It also is a pain to adjust azimuth with the Linn arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC-93 Posted November 8, 2021 Author Share Posted November 8, 2021 (edited) Are the tweeter and midrange the same in the 2CE Sig III and current 3A Sig ? What about the woofers?? Edited November 8, 2021 by DC-93 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Vandersteen Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 DC-93, The tweeter is the same with a different mod, the midrange is the same, the 8 inch woofer is different plus it is 4 ohm and the Acoustic Coupler in the rear is a cast basket with aluminum cone in the 3A Sig vs. the 2Ce Sig III is stamped steel with paper cone. RV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Vandersteen Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 4 hours ago, Moose said: Hi Steve: I last had a Benz Micro Ruby ZH on it. The 'table had the Valhalla circuit board originally. Around 1995 I discovered my plinth had cracked. I replaced it with a Woodsong plinth, and did the trampolin/Lingo upgrade. That was nice! In 2011 I bought a Clearaudio Innovation Wood, with a Graham Phantom II tonearm, and Benz Gullwing cartridge. That smoked my Linn (better speed stability, quieter background, deeper bass), which went into a 2nd system. Around 2015 I was auditioning speakers (Vandersteen Quatro Wood CTs) at Overture Audio, and they had the best sounding LP12 I'd ever heard. I would up doing the Keel/Radikal/Ekos SE upgrade. That really made it competitive with my other turntable setup. I sold both in 2020 and went on with some other things. While I liked the fully-loaded Linn, it was still kind of tweaky, and it's missing VTA on the fly, which is nice. It also is a pain to adjust azimuth with the Linn arms. It is an honor to have a pair of our speakers messing up that beautiful view! RV 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC-93 Posted November 9, 2021 Author Share Posted November 9, 2021 15 hours ago, Richard Vandersteen said: DC-93, The tweeter is the same with a different mod, the midrange is the same, the 8 inch woofer is different plus it is 4 ohm and the Acoustic Coupler in the rear is a cast basket with aluminum cone in the 3A Sig vs. the 2Ce Sig III is stamped steel with paper cone. RV Thank you sir. I'll have to set up a time with Harry Francis at Audio Dimensions to audition the 2CeSig III. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Harry Francis is GREAT! I moved to NY State 5 years ago, and I miss him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctsooner Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 I have never been to Detroit, other than the airport or driving through (once). He's one of the Vandersteen dealers I have never met, lol. Where in NY do you live now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 South of Rochester. The Analog Shop in Victor, NY is the Vandersteen dealer around here. Bob Lietz is the owner. He's a good guy and provides support when you need it. I like to support my local retailers, and it's a treat to work with Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctsooner Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 Cool. I've heard about him, but have never known any audiophiles up your way. Love the name of the place, lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now