Cosmic Posted July 1, 2022 Share Posted July 1, 2022 Anyone have experience with Treo CT’s and MSB amps, specifically the S202? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmz Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 I‘ve no idea on your question… as when I saw MSB, I was thinking “Most Significant Bit”. But I’ll give you a 10 digits 🖐️🤚 as a forum welcome @Cosmic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Posted July 2, 2022 Author Share Posted July 2, 2022 Hah hah, no: https://www.msbtechnology.com/amplifiers/s202/ Thanks for the welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Posted July 2, 2022 Author Share Posted July 2, 2022 …although, I think that’s where the company name actually comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeske Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 Man, that is a nice looking amp. Welcome to the forum 👍🏼 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Posted July 2, 2022 Author Share Posted July 2, 2022 Yes! Deciding whether to upgrade with McIntosh or go with MSB. A/B comparison will not be possible, so wondering if anyone here might have tried MSB amplification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmz Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Cosmic said: Yes! Deciding whether to upgrade with McIntosh or go with MSB. A/B comparison will not be possible, so wondering if anyone here might have tried MSB amplification. @TomicTime Is a Mc fan. I have 2 car amps, but I would probably try the MSB… But that is not reasoned. It is just emotional. Where in Ca are they? And what is your city/state? 10 hours ago, Cosmic said: …although, I think that’s where the company name actually comes from. Well I usually tell my co-workers, “Worry about the exponent before the worrying about the mantissa.” Edited July 2, 2022 by Holmz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Posted July 2, 2022 Author Share Posted July 2, 2022 😂 The factory is in Watsonville. I’m in Maine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKDad Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 Mark S Brasfield. Divorced from the company for almost three decades now; sold out to his cofounder. Just curious - what's wrong with Vandersteen or even Ayre amplification? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Posted July 2, 2022 Author Share Posted July 2, 2022 Ahhh…I stand corrected. Nothing whatsoever wrong with Vandersteen or Ayer amplification, although I’ve not heard either. Am looking to upgrade my current MA 8900. First choice was to go with a pair of MC 611 monoblocs ( which would require a pre-amp), since I already really like Mac. Then I realized I could run my MSB Discrete directly into the S202. I could do the same with any amp, but am thinking an all MSB signal chain would likely be better, or at least get more out of the DAC. Using what I would have spent on a pre-amp ( plus a bit more) might get me to an end game amp which would be a step up from the 611’s. Or, at least that’s my thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKDad Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 Don't take this as a criticism, because it most certainly is not... It seems to me that a lot of audio enthusiasts like sampling all sorts of different gear as a big part of their hobby. That's all great, and the dealers must love that, but it also seems to me that it makes converging on a system that is enjoyable to sit down and listen to pretty hard. The problem is that each change in gear is a very large step in a different direction (Most Significant Bit like, if you'd prefer) rather than a refinement toward a goal. But - it is a hobby. Everybody gets to do it as they choose to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Vandersteen Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Cosmic said: Ahhh…I stand corrected. Nothing whatsoever wrong with Vandersteen or Ayer amplification, although I’ve not heard either. Am looking to upgrade my current MA 8900. First choice was to go with a pair of MC 611 monoblocs ( which would require a pre-amp), since I already really like Mac. Then I realized I could run my MSB Discrete directly into the S202. I could do the same with any amp, but am thinking an all MSB signal chain would likely be better, or at least get more out of the DAC. Using what I would have spent on a pre-amp ( plus a bit more) might get me to an end game amp which would be a step up from the 611’s. Or, at least that’s my thinking. I have not been able to verify if the MSB is a feedback design or not. With solid-state gear I find this one design parameter is most indicative of how well the component will satisfy musically because they most often hook you emotionally, IMO. RV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKDad Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 They claim that it's zero feedback: https://www.msbtechnology.com/amplifiers/m205/ https://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/equipment-menu/1038-msb-technology-s202-stereo-amplifier#most-read-equipment-reviews But, how they attain such low output impedance (https://www.msbtechnology.com/amplifiers/s202-amplifier-support/) with that static power consumption and no feedback around the output stage is a trick I'd love to learn about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctsooner Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 I e auditioned their whole line over the years. I have a friend who sells their gear. Their digital is outstanding. It was on my list. I love their amps, but to my ears my Vandersteen amp is much better all around thanks the MSB Select amps. Ayre would be a great comp. I liked the Ayre ref series with it batter, but stil like Richards amp best. That’s jus time, but the MSB was auditioned with Quatro’s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Posted July 2, 2022 Author Share Posted July 2, 2022 3 hours ago, Richard Vandersteen said: I have not been able to verify if the MSB is a feedback design or not. With solid-state gear I find this one design parameter is most indicative of how well the component will satisfy musically because they most often hook you emotionally, IMO. RV Thanks, Richard, I really appreciate your response. My technical understanding is superficial at best, so please bear with me. You’re saying a no-feedback design is likely to be more musically satisfying? Does that then mean a feedback design is a bait and switch approach (hooks you emotionally, but at the expense of musicality)? Sorry for my confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Posted July 2, 2022 Author Share Posted July 2, 2022 55 minutes ago, ctsooner said: I e auditioned their whole line over the years. I have a friend who sells their gear. Their digital is outstanding. It was on my list. I love their amps, but to my ears my Vandersteen amp is much better all around thanks the MSB Select amps. Ayre would be a great comp. I liked the Ayre ref series with it batter, but stil like Richards amp best. That’s jus time, but the MSB was auditioned with Quatro’s Thanks, helpful to hear! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Vandersteen Posted July 2, 2022 Share Posted July 2, 2022 5 minutes ago, Cosmic said: Thanks, Richard, I really appreciate your response. My technical understanding is superficial at best, so please bear with me. You’re saying a no-feedback design is likely to be more musically satisfying? Does that then mean a feedback design is a bait and switch approach (hooks you emotionally, but at the expense of musicality)? Sorry for my confusion. Sorry, I didn't intend to confuse but the hook is what makes it real and worthwhile for me! RV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Posted July 2, 2022 Author Share Posted July 2, 2022 Got it, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 …… I guess, one could say… “ I am a Mc fan “…. but saying that out of context for what i am actually running…. is a stretch… I have a heavily modified and rebuilt / retubed 1961 MC240 with a bevy of NOS tubes, Russian PIO caps, Harmon Kardon Citation regulation, HRS isolation…. running Treo CT w a sub 3. I have heard the Vandy M5 amp many times, much as i love my family heirloom hotrod mac, it’s no Vandy M5. I have the Vandy M7 amps in another system….. I would also tell ya the MC240 transformers are probably the best Mc ever did for bandwidth and phase shift…. The MSB amp looks intriguing…..but i haven’t heard it. it will be on my list of stuff to listen to in a serious way but also for grins…heat pipes ? we use those in satts… pretty exotic and expensive….one of my mentor work mentor and in the first 100 employees at NASA held several heat pipe patents…. i digress… I don’t know about eliminating the preamp…..most often…its lacking… but the allure is there for saving $ and having less stuff in the signal path….. and yet, more often than not a competent preamp in the chain…makes for better…. Welcome to the forum…best to you ! jim 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 Full disclosure, i did an extended home demo with the MSB “ Analog “ DAC and optional PowerBase, excellent sonics…was runner up to an FPGA / tube DAC ( Aesthetix Pandora )…. they do build nice gear for sure…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctsooner Posted July 18, 2022 Share Posted July 18, 2022 I'm with Jim. I live in Hartford and have been around MAC gear since I was 9yo. The owner of the local shop's uncle was part of the ownership at Mac in Binghamton (mom grew up there and and I still have family I visit there) and then the left (years ago) to start Tributaries in FL (cables). I've heard many modified pieces (they still have the best tech working on older gear) and they are nice, but not up to what Richard is doing with his electronics. The issue for me with MSB was that it was too expensive for what it gave me. I wasn't able to play in that range properly, so it wasn't worth it for me. I like the Vandy amps best on my Quatro's as I've said and I've auditioned a ton of top electronics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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