My System

[Cosmic]

Treo CT’s

Mac 611Mono’s

Mac C22 Pre-Amp

Rel S510’s

MSB Discrete Dac

Innuos Zen Mk3 Streamer

 

Started with Vandersteen 2c’s in the 80’s.  Complete overhaul of the system during the Pandemic.  Not a big space at all, so I realize the Rel stacks may be unconventional, however the sound is first rate even at  low to moderate volumes, where I mostly listen.  The heart of the system, though are the Treo’s.  They have gotten better with every component upgrade, and I think I have not topped them out yet.  I was hooked on Vandersteen in the mid 80’s and for me, there’s no other choice for speakers.
 

[GdnrBob]

Got Bass?☺️

 

Just kidding.

Nice looking system.

2 things:

1. Have you tried spreading out the subs, like a DEBRA? I know space is limited, but just had to ask.

2. Have you tried putting something over the wall/doors behind the equipment? I have found that something that deflects/diffuses usually helps with sound reproduction.

 

Bob

[Cosmic]

Thanks!  Yes, space is an issue, so not possible to distribute them, but they are designed as a stackable line array.  Good thought on the rear wall.  Do you think a tapestry would work, or might it take something more robust  like a diffuser panel(s)?

[ctsooner]

Looking good. Love he DAC too

[TomicTime]

Cool, fun musical happiness 😉 

[bkeske]

@Cosmic

👍🏼 Nice. Interesting mix and setup. Welcome to the forum, and thanks for sharing.

[GdnrBob]

On 11/20/2022 at 8:14 PM, Cosmic said:

 Do you think a tapestry would work, or might it take something more robust  like a diffuser panel(s)?

A tapestry would be a great addition. No need to buy diffuser panels as the tapestry is a natural diffuser/absorber.

Bob

[chris1625]

Hello, System looks amazing. I have the Treo's and they have become my favorite speaker of any of my systems. I have a speakers 3 times the price in a different system that only surpass the Treo's in bass impact, so I have been looking into the REL subs. My question is did you start with the 6 or build the array over time? What did you crossover the subs at? How easy was the set up? I've thought about adding one or two  Sub threes but I'm not an equipment tuner or tweaker. I love listening to music and keeping things simple. I should of bought  Quarto's or knowing now how much I love the Vandersteen's maybe the Kento's but the set up and tuning would hold me back. Chris

[TomicTime]

it is easy AND if the EQ part is daunting you will still be sonically ahead by leaving controls set at flat. Adding Sub3 to treo is easy just match the efficiency spec of what you are pairing with….. Have fun, enjoy….. 

[GdnrBob]

@chris1625

Though they cost more, the Vandy subs are, in my opinion, superior to other subs, especially being they are built to work with ours speakers.

Also, construction is almost 'bullet proof'. There are 2w's still being used, after what? 30 years.

If you can swing it, get a Sub 3. That will give you the bass 'kick' you want. As the budget allows, get a second and you'll be in Quatro land.

Bob

[Holmz]

On 11/21/2022 at 10:44 AM, Cosmic said:

…  Good thought on the rear wall.  Do you think a tapestry would work, or might it take something more robust  like a diffuser panel(s)?

For what?

If it is specifically for bass then at least the tapestry gets them off of the wall, which is a boundary condition where the velocity is zero.
So on a wall or a corner, one usually needs a pressure trap, as the pressure is highest there (and the velocity is zero.)

But it gets better as a tapestry or curtain/drape can be hung a bit off of the wall and as one moves into the room, it starts moving it into the velocity zone.
So it gets better at the lowest of registers.

But it would certainly help for the upper notes. And it would look good.
Just it will start dying out in the lower room modes… assuming that was the goal.
(But a small room with have those modes pushed higher in freq, so the treatment gets more of a “look in”.)

In spite of all ^that^ I did get some absorber to make a ~3-4” think panel to go behind the sofa. (Which I guess is the front wall)
The sofa has the ears to wall something like 20” (from memory). And cutting out the bounce will certainly help the sound. 
(3-4” of an absorber in a frame with a sublimation dye print is the only thing that will work and pass WAF.)

 

In your case the “rear wall” is the one behind the speakers. then it would be a great place to hang a tapestry.
If it was not difficult, I would try attaching some rod to the wall to use to hold the thing… and then try it using a blanket and see if it makes an improvement.
It would be easy to back out of that it not.

In my mind a tapestry would look better, but i think that most acousticians like to use a diffuser on that wall.
… and they like to use the absorber on the wall behind listener.

The principle seem easy, but it also seems to quickly descend into the dark arts and a place for Dunning-Krugar where a room can be over treated.
Those “closets” behind the equipment also could be playing some role.

I think you either need to just try it, or get a proper acousticians to give a hand.

 

Does Cosmic derive from a B52’s song, an interest in astronomy, or ?

[Cosmic]

18 hours ago, chris1625 said:

Hello, System looks amazing. I have the Treo's and they have become my favorite speaker of any of my systems. I have a speakers 3 times the price in a different system that only surpass the Treo's in bass impact, so I have been looking into the REL subs. My question is did you start with the 6 or build the array over time? What did you crossover the subs at? How easy was the set up? I've thought about adding one or two  Sub threes but I'm not an equipment tuner or tweaker. I love listening to music and keeping things simple. I should have bought  Quarto's or knowing now how much I love the Vandersteen's maybe the Kento's but the set up and tuning would hold me back. Chris

Thanks!  I put the line array together over a short period of time.  I tried two at first, and was convinced REL was onto something with the line array, so I quickly added four more.  Tuning is easy:  each level from the floor up corresponds to  low, mid, and high frequency  cross overs, based on your room.   You adjust the cross over and volume at each tier and for each sub.  Not hard at all—no meters, do it by ear.  The interesting thing is that each level improves the soundstage depth and width, together  with clarity and separation.   It’s not more bass, but rather, more solidity and spatial location for each note or vocal.  Very refined and life like sound, with realistic tight and fast bass and phenomenal sound stage.  I thought hard about Vandersteen subs, but decided the REL vertical line array concept would work better in a small room, where I didn’t have space for multiple subs on the floor.   I was not able to compare the REL’s to Vandersteen subs, which I assume are awesome.  But the REL’s are, too!

[Cosmic]

1 hour ago, Holmz said:

For what?

If it is specifically for bass then at least the tapestry gets them off of the wall, which is a boundary condition where the velocity is zero.
So on a wall or a corner, one usually needs a pressure trap, as the pressure is highest there (and the velocity is zero.)

But it gets better as a tapestry or curtain/drape can be hung a bit off of the wall and as one moves into the room, it starts moving it into the velocity zone.
So it gets better at the lowest of registers.

But it would certainly help for the upper notes. And it would look good.
Just it will start dying out in the lower room modes… assuming that was the goal.
(But a small room with have those modes pushed higher in freq, so the treatment gets more of a “look in”.)

In spite of all ^that^ I did get some absorber to make a ~3-4” think panel to go behind the sofa. (Which I guess is the front wall)
The sofa has the ears to wall something like 20” (from memory). And cutting out the bounce will certainly help the sound. 
(3-4” of an absorber in a frame with a sublimation dye print is the only thing that will work and pass WAF.)

 

In your case the “rear wall” is the one behind the speakers. then it would be a great place to hang a tapestry.
If it was not difficult, I would try attaching some rod to the wall to use to hold the thing… and then try it using a blanket and see if it makes an improvement.
It would be easy to back out of that it not.

In my mind a tapestry would look better, but i think that most acousticians like to use a diffuser on that wall.
… and they like to use the absorber on the wall behind listener.

The principle seem easy, but it also seems to quickly descend into the dark arts and a place for Dunning-Krugar where a room can be over treated.
Those “closets” behind the equipment also could be playing some role.

I think you either need to just try it, or get a proper acousticians to give a hand.

 

Does Cosmic derive from a B52’s song, an interest in astronomy, or ?

Thanks for this; I need to review and give it some thought.  In the meantime, “Cosmic” is a combination of Grateful Dead (“Cosmic Charlie”) and an interest in Cosmology, which is maybe the same thing?!?

[ctsooner]

REL makes great subs and if not for Vandy Sub 3's, REL would be my next recommendation.  I just personally love what the Vandy approach does.  It matches perfectly with our speakers and it helps lessens the work of the amps since they cross at 100hz or 80 depending on the speaker and that allows the amps to 'sound better' all around.  I remember doing an A/B with subs in and out of the system years ago.  I was blown away (we took the whole day doing this at a Vandy dealer).  It was crazy cool.

As I said, REL makes great subs and there are various ways to skin a cat.  As long as you are enjoying what you have, that's the key thing. 

[ctsooner]

Cosmic.  Have you ever used the subs in a swarm set up to smooth everything out?  

[Richard Vandersteen]

On 1/4/2023 at 9:16 PM, chris1625 said:

Hello, System looks amazing. I have the Treo's and they have become my favorite speaker of any of my systems. I have a speakers 3 times the price in a different system that only surpass the Treo's in bass impact, so I have been looking into the REL subs. My question is did you start with the 6 or build the array over time? What did you crossover the subs at? How easy was the set up? I've thought about adding one or two  Sub threes but I'm not an equipment tuner or tweaker. I love listening to music and keeping things simple. I should of bought  Quarto's or knowing now how much I love the Vandersteen's maybe the Kento's but the set up and tuning would hold me back. Chris

Chris, the Quatro CT or KENTO's are not difficult to set up.  If you take them out of the box and set them on the floor and do nothing else, they will kick the ass of anything near their price and are the only available speaker that is "Time and Phase Correct"!  Don't let all of the tweaking and optimization you read about on this forum or any other intimidate you.  These are passionate people taking the level of performance even further over time for further rewards no speaker could touch for any price.  Several weeks ago, I heard from a Model SEVEN owner who had someone listen who owns speakers costing 3+ times ask, "What is going on here".  Don't allow yourself to be cheated out of this potential as you may want it someday and the cost will be nothing but some time.  RV

[Holmz]

2 minutes ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

…, they will kick the ass of anything near their price and are the only available speaker that is "Time and Phase Correct"!  …

I can picture a marketing flyer with a stack of other speakers with their asses kicked out, and the Vandy standing like an MMA champ.

[Holmz]

On 1/6/2023 at 9:53 AM, Cosmic said:

Thanks for this; I need to review and give it some thought.  In the meantime, “…

I put down a lot of words, but once we get past my gibberish it was basically either:

1. Get an acoustician.
2. Or just dive into it.

[Holmz]

It is weird - Put the exercise bike in front of the TV and whacked a RCA to headphone cord into the iPad to listen to a pod cast.

The speakers are ~7’ apart, and my head was about a foot or two back. The front axel is centered on the d speaker axis.
It still sounds pretty good even almost right in between them.

Of course I get a bit of upper bass in my ears at 120-130 beats/min… 😍 boom boom.
Better than no beats!

[ctsooner]

Chris, I can promise you that it's not nearly as intimidating as it seems. I too had 'stage fright' as one of the things in high end that I'm not good at is set up.  If I had a choice of Kento's or most anything else, but I couldn't do the bass EQ, I'd still get them.  No question about it.  I'm actually saving now for a pair in the future (I may never get there, but I'm going to try) 🙂.  

[Holmz]

49 minutes ago, ctsooner said:

…  No question about it.  I'm actually saving now for a pair in the future (I may never get there, but I'm going to try) 🙂.  

I am slaving up for an upgrade too Pete. 🤔
 

[ctsooner]

2 minutes ago, Holmz said:

I am slaving up for an upgrade too Pete. 🤔
 

???  

[Holmz]

Just now, ctsooner said:

???  

You’re saving up…
And I am back at work, but it is not too bad as they treat me OK… so it is not really slaving away because I enjoy it.