New Amps For Quatro Woods

[RussM]

Well hello everyone. I've been active on some of the other forums but it was suggested that since I have Vandys that this one was really the one to join. My speakers are heart of my system and not negotiable except to upgrade one day. My current signal path is Brinkmann Bardo with matching 10.5 arm fitted with Ortofon cadenza black-> Rogers High Fidelity PA-2-> Don Sachs model 2 preamp-> Rogue Audio M180s. What I'm looking for is increased soundstage depth and detail while keeping things involving. I've gone all tube because I have historically found SS gear to be a bit thin and sterile sounding t ok me. It's the same reason I prefer vinyl to digital (also have a streamer I to a Schiit Yggy analog 2). My first goal was to improve my preamp and the Sachs has done that for me. I'm using a used one now and may get a new one from him with dual volume controls or possibly a used Joule-Electra (live 90 min from Rich Brkich) or maybe a different boutique handmade unit like an Aric Audio. 

In the meantime though, I'm interested in upgrading my amps to something with zero negative feedback as it's been made quite clear here and elsewhere that the Vandys time correctness suffers without this. I've been looking on the used market and I've found some players:

https://tmraudio.com/components/power-amplifiers/ayon-triton-mono-tube-power-amplifiers-pair-new-tubes/

https://tmraudio.com/components/power-amplifiers/canary-audio-ca339-mkii-monoblock-tube-amplifiers-ca-339-mk2-black-pair/

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649933445-cary-audio-cad-211-ae/

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649851712-atma-sphere-m60-otl-monoblocks/

There are other pairs of the canary ones in USAM as well and honestly these are the ones I can find least about. Don't know if Zero Negative feedback or not. Reached out to them but haven't heard back. All the others are definitely Zero NFB. Would love to hear people experiences with these units, in any, and what other options might be. I'd like to keep my budget in the parameters mentioned here which is why I'm not including the bespoke vandy amps. 

 

Best,

Russ

[Richard Vandersteen]

1 hour ago, RussM said:

Well hello everyone. I've been active on some of the other forums but it was suggested that since I have Vandys that this one was really the one to join. My speakers are heart of my system and not negotiable except to upgrade one day. My current signal path is Brinkmann Bardo with matching 10.5 arm fitted with Ortofon cadenza black-> Rogers High Fidelity PA-2-> Don Sachs model 2 preamp-> Rogue Audio M180s. What I'm looking for is increased soundstage depth and detail while keeping things involving. I've gone all tube because I have historically found SS gear to be a bit thin and sterile sounding t ok me. It's the same reason I prefer vinyl to digital (also have a streamer I to a Schiit Yggy analog 2). My first goal was to improve my preamp and the Sachs has done that for me. I'm using a used one now and may get a new one from him with dual volume controls or possibly a used Joule-Electra (live 90 min from Rich Brkich) or maybe a different boutique handmade unit like an Aric Audio. 

In the meantime though, I'm interested in upgrading my amps to something with zero negative feedback as it's been made quite clear here and elsewhere that the Vandys time correctness suffers without this. I've been looking on the used market and I've found some players:

https://tmraudio.com/components/power-amplifiers/ayon-triton-mono-tube-power-amplifiers-pair-new-tubes/

https://tmraudio.com/components/power-amplifiers/canary-audio-ca339-mkii-monoblock-tube-amplifiers-ca-339-mk2-black-pair/

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649933445-cary-audio-cad-211-ae/

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649851712-atma-sphere-m60-otl-monoblocks/

There are other pairs of the canary ones in USAM as well and honestly these are the ones I can find least about. Don't know if Zero Negative feedback or not. Reached out to them but haven't heard back. All the others are definitely Zero NFB. Would love to hear people experiences with these units, in any, and what other options might be. I'd like to keep my budget in the parameters mentioned here which is why I'm not including the bespoke vandy amps. 

 

Best,

Russ

Russ, FYI tube amps generally use a lot less feedback, so they suffer less of the possible side effects.  Your M180 amps are very good so you would want to do a side-by-side audition to assure your change will be an improvement.  Keep your speaker wires short (less than 3 or 4 feet) if you can.  RV

[RussM]

Richard,

Thanks for the info! Johnny at Audio connection sold me the original system and made sure my cables are 1 meter biwire. Makes for challenging amp placement but has always sounded good.

 

[ctsooner]

When I went from 8' cable to 3' it made a very noticeable difference.  

[ctsooner]

Also, Johnny is about as good as it gets.  He'll make sure that you audition and only make a decent upgrade, rather than a lateral move 😉. 

[GdnrBob]

I use the Atma MA-1's and MP-1 (non upgraded with the Treo's in the winter. Summer is with Ayre MX-R/MX-P(non Twenty).

 

To be honest, they are really close soundwise to my rather dodgy ears. The Ayre seems a bit 'tighter', esp. in the bass.

IMHO, You seem to have a fairly high resolving system, so I would think you'd be good to go with Atmasphere. -Especially, if you only want to go with tubes. And, he utilizes Zero Feedback 

Giving John Rutan a call would probably be the best move. He knows much more than I.

Using equipment that implements the AES standards for XLR will negate much of the cable signature's effect on sound. Atmasphere, Ayre, and Vandersteen do this.

Bob

[RussM]

Update is that I have a line on an older pair (like 20 years) of Atma-sphere MA-1s. They're from a dealer and will be brought to original spec and will get fresh tubes. They're a very attractive price. I should be able to trial them. Anybody besides grdnrbob have experience with these? 

[TomicTime]

Russ not with that amp but buddy had 60 wpc Mono for many years and was pretty happy. Congrats and that listening trial in your own system to your own tastes is a good idea.

Have fun, enjoy the musical journey

best to you

Jim

[RussM]

How about ModWright? Anybody with experience with 120 SE amplifier run either solo or as a mono pair? seems very attractive to me as a high power, simple circuit, no feedback amplifier. 

[GdnrBob]

I don't know ModWright, but Atma's are zero feedback- which seems to make the Vandy's happy

B

[randyhat]

Anyone using the Ayre VX-5 Twenty with their Quatro CTs?  It is on my short list to upgrade my amplification.

[Holmz]

On 1/5/2023 at 3:48 AM, RussM said:

Update is that I have a line on an older pair (like 20 years) of Atma-sphere MA-1s. They're from a dealer and will be brought to original spec and will get fresh tubes. They're a very attractive price. I should be able to trial them. Anybody besides grdnrbob have experience with these? 

I would trial them in a heart beat.
But no experience with them.

Their specs on paper are good for all their amps, and there is not a lot of colour from the output transformer. 😚

Edited February 11, 2023 by Holmz

[ctsooner]

On 2/10/2023 at 6:13 PM, randyhat said:

Anyone using the Ayre VX-5 Twenty with their Quatro CTs?  It is on my short list to upgrade my amplification.

I did for a few years until I purchased my M5 amp.  It's a great integrated.  You just need help setting up the crossover as it doesn't have a pre out on it.   After hearing mono blocks with 3' cables, I would have gotten a set of mono blocks at the Vandy dealer rather than the integrated.  Price may not allow that as the AX5/20 is a special product at that price IMHO.  The preamp is very special and isn't just the same as their KX5/20.  I feel it's closer in sound to their KXR, which is a GREAT pre and has few rivals near its price.  

I'm running my M5's direct without a pre (saving up for Richard's new pre when it comes out) and it still sounds great (much better than the AX5/20.  I use a very high end server/streamer with all the digital cleaned up etc. and an amazing Brinkmann DAC.. I run mostly WAV recordings that are 24 or 32 bits,  through either Roon or (forgot the name of the other software.... that's MS fog) ????  I control volume there.  IF you can possibly afford to go that route, you can save a lot on speaker cables and save for a used pre etc...  just another thought as that's what we all need, right??? ;).