Audiogon Feedback System is not honest

[JonM]

I browse and buy from Audiogon all the time.  It's a fun place to browse.  "Looking is finding" as some have said.

I will try to spare the details of the transaction, because that's not the point of my post.  I recently bought a component for my C system.  Not terribly expensive.  This piece comes in black ash finish and also higher-cost gloss black finish and the seller had both of them.  Seller has 100% positive reviews for the last ~4 years and many transactions.  I bought the gloss black one.  Seller sent me the lower cost black ash one, with a significant blemish.  Not the "as-new" gloss black in the listing I paid from.  This wasn't actually a huge deal for me, so I wrote to seller and suggested a way forward.  No response.  After a week, I left him negative feedback that was honest and measured.  My feedback was "Ordered gloss black, got black ash.  Sellers seems like a nice guy but we could not work it out".  Then the seller responds, super angry, and leaves me horrible feedback as retaliation.  No explanation of why it took a week to respond; my guess is he was going to move on from the transaction altogether had it not been for the negative feedback.

Here is the point of my post: 

I wasn't super happy about the negative feedback against me because I didn't think it was justified.  I was tempted to click the "dispute feedback" button but I don't know what that button does, so I wrote to Audiogon:  

Me:   Hi. I am curious if you can advise if I should dispute feedback I received from a seller.  How does disputing negative feedback work?  Do the words I write in the dispute box show up in my feedback like an explanation?  Or, when I dispute a transaction, does that trigger someone at Audiogon to review a transaction and all the interaction between a seller and a buyer?

Audiogon:  It seems to be a misunderstanding from what I can tell.  What if I remove the feedback he left you and the one you left him?

Me:  Removing the feedback doesn’t seem right. I think it’s hard to believe this seller has 100% positive feedback.  Other buyers should know about this guy. I almost think he is counting on my disputing his retaliation feedback so it will all go away.  I was mostly curious about the process. I did click the “dispute feedback” button and I entered my explanation there. 

Then Audiogon proceeds to remove the negative feedback against me and against the seller.  Like it never happened.  This seller has lots of things for sale on Audiogon.  I am sure they collect lots of fees from him.  I am thinking that Audiogon tries to supress as much negative feedback as they can to keep sellers happy.  That doesn't seem right.

I think Audiogon is a good place and I think the majority of sellers and buyers and transactions are great.  But they aren't all great and I am not sure the feedback and rating system is trustworthy.

[TomicTime]

Jon - Yep….it’s the same on Discogs…my approach has been lucky…i try to establish a connection w seller / buyer in some fashion thru PM and better phone.  So far so good. 

Jim

[JonM]

I don't buy a lot of eBay, but apparently sellers cannot give negative feedback to buyers, because they had trouble with retaliation too.

[GdnrBob]

9 hours ago, JonM said:

I am thinking that Audiogon tries to supress as much negative feedback as they can to keep sellers happy. 

That does seem plausible. Why not post a thread on Audiogon, just as you have done here?

At worst, they will delete it. At best, you might have other members contact you with similar situations.

And, if the latter, then changes would be in order. 

You gave the seller a chance to reply or make things better. That he didn't reply and proceeded to give a bad feedback shows a poor attitude.

FWIW, all my experiences on Audiogon have been positive. Though I tend to buy from individuals rather than professional sellers.

B

[JonM]

GdnrBob, great feedback.

I don’t post at Audiogon forums and I didn’t think I should start with this one.   But that is the right venue for it.  A quick google search found a thread there from a few years ago and this same seller did the same “negative feedback delete” trick with another buyer.  So there are at least 2 cases where the negatives just get suppressed.  

This was a “verified dealer” which is a lot different than individuals like us. I have had nothing but good luck peer-to-peer at Audiogon, both buying and selling. 

[ctsooner]

I have had a couple of negative experiences with buys and a seller. The seller sells the used gear and trade in stuff from a highly reputable dealer who I e sent a ton of folks to over the years. It was an older model of the Rhea preamp. I wasn’t happy when I saw how old it was, but I also wasn’t able to see if it worked as promised, as I didn’t have a TT yet. That took a month. It was DOA. I sent it to Jim and Co and they installed a brand new power supply and upgraded everything and made it like new. I was blessed they did that. I called the guy out on it and found out he screwed over others. 
 

I will sell there, but not purchase anymore. 

[Holmz]

On 3/17/2023 at 8:54 AM, JonM said:

GdnrBob, great feedback.

I don’t post at Audiogon forums and I didn’t think I should start with this one.   But that is the right venue for it.  A quick google search found a thread there from a few years ago and this same seller did the same “negative feedback delete” trick with another buyer.  So there are at least 2 cases where the negatives just get suppressed.  

This was a “verified dealer” which is a lot different than individuals like us. I have had nothing but good luck peer-to-peer at Audiogon, both buying and selling. 

Audiogon is a bit of “the Wild West” and a lot of threads can have a school yard behavior standard, that would keep a sociologist employed to retirement.
Some people get kicked off, and at least one, whose posts I always enjoyed.

But it is easier to get a sense of things with a few fora as the perspective are not all laser coherent.

[Richard Vandersteen]

14 hours ago, Holmz said:

Audiogon is a bit of “the Wild West” and a lot of threads can have a school yard behavior standard, that would keep a sociologist employed to retirement.
Some people get kicked off, and at least one, whose posts I always enjoyed.

But it is easier to get a sense of things with a few fora as the perspective are not all laser coherent.

Buying Previously Owned gear of all kinds has always been the art of saving some bucks for increased risk!  It will never change.  RV

[GdnrBob]

7 hours ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

Buying Previously Owned gear of all kinds has always been the art of saving some bucks for increased risk!  It will never change.  RV

Though I have to say the playing field has been leveled with the internet. Instead of a reseller making the prices, the buyers do. -With HifiShark allowing one to see what the going price is.

 

Perhaps some additional risk, but when I remember how little I got from Stereo Exchange for my equipment, versus how much they sold it for, it is a risk I am willing to take.

Also, 99% of the sellers (not the professional resellers), have been  open, honest and friendly- even allowing me to audition the equipment in their homes, before I bought it.

B