Ayre QX-5 Twenty

[ursus13]

Looking for some guidance:

I’m auditioning an Ayre QX-5 Twenty (with the new USB and Ether modules and latest firmware) until the 20th. I’ve had it in my system for about 8 days. 

My system is: Lumin U1 Mini > QX-5 Twenty > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Quatro CTs.

(Two months ago I moved the speakers further apart with more toe-in and I really like the staging, imaging, and musical engagement.)

Current DAC is a Schiit Yggdrasil.

A/B listening between DACs this weekend. QX-5 is so engaging. Detail for days. Sound stage is epic. The tradeoff is that some tracks sound bright, where some instruments are too forward (cymbals, hi hat, sax, etc).

The Yggy by comparison sounds more laid back with these same tracks/instruments. But the Yggy is also darker overall by comparison, with less depth and 3D sound stage.

QX-5 soundstage and sense of depth and separation (of instruments) is amazing. Very holographic. 

By comparison the Yggy is smaller and flatter sounding (stage and depth.)

But, again, the tradeoff is the too forward HF sometimes and with certain instruments with the QX-5. It can be too intense. I’m worried about potential of listening fatigue. However, the effect while listening short term has been addicting.

Very tough decision between the two DACs.

I know @ctsooner and others have owned a QX-5 before. 

The unit has about 100 hours on it. I have tried both USB and AES. (AES might be a bit less bright, but I’m not totally sure though.)

Any thoughts here? Is the QX-5 bright, for those who have owned it? Is it a matter if break in? Is it my speaker set up, with the toe in (using the darker Yggy DAC)? I know this is all in the abstract, since you can’t be in my room, but I’d love any insights, thoughts, suggestions.

Thanks, all.

[GdnrBob]

I would be inclined toward speaker placement. I owned other Ayre DAC's and never noticed them being 'too forward'.  Though the QX-5 might be different...

What cables are you using?

Bob

[Richard Vandersteen]

11 hours ago, ursus13 said:

Looking for some guidance:

I’m auditioning an Ayre QX-5 Twenty (with the new USB and Ether modules and latest firmware) until the 20th. I’ve had it in my system for about 8 days. 

My system is: Lumin U1 Mini > QX-5 Twenty > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Quatro CTs.

(Two months ago I moved the speakers further apart with more toe-in and I really like the staging, imaging, and musical engagement.)

Current DAC is a Schiit Yggdrasil.

A/B listening between DACs this weekend. QX-5 is so engaging. Detail for days. Sound stage is epic. The tradeoff is that some tracks sound bright, where some instruments are too forward (cymbals, hi hat, sax, etc).

The Yggy by comparison sounds more laid back with these same tracks/instruments. But the Yggy is also darker overall by comparison, with less depth and 3D sound stage.

QX-5 soundstage and sense of depth and separation (of instruments) is amazing. Very holographic. 

By comparison the Yggy is smaller and flatter sounding (stage and depth.)

But, again, the tradeoff is the too forward HF sometimes and with certain instruments with the QX-5. It can be too intense. I’m worried about potential of listening fatigue. However, the effect while listening short term has been addicting.

Very tough decision between the two DACs.

I know @ctsooner and others have owned a QX-5 before. 

The unit has about 100 hours on it. I have tried both USB and AES. (AES might be a bit less bright, but I’m not totally sure though.)

Any thoughts here? Is the QX-5 bright, for those who have owned it? Is it a matter if break in? Is it my speaker set up, with the toe in (using the darker Yggy DAC)? I know this is all in the abstract, since you can’t be in my room, but I’d love any insights, thoughts, suggestions.

Thanks, all.

 

11 hours ago, ursus13 said:

Looking for some guidance:

I’m auditioning an Ayre QX-5 Twenty (with the new USB and Ether modules and latest firmware) until the 20th. I’ve had it in my system for about 8 days. 

My system is: Lumin U1 Mini > QX-5 Twenty > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Quatro CTs.

(Two months ago I moved the speakers further apart with more toe-in and I really like the staging, imaging, and musical engagement.)

Current DAC is a Schiit Yggdrasil.

A/B listening between DACs this weekend. QX-5 is so engaging. Detail for days. Sound stage is epic. The tradeoff is that some tracks sound bright, where some instruments are too forward (cymbals, hi hat, sax, etc).

The Yggy by comparison sounds more laid back with these same tracks/instruments. But the Yggy is also darker overall by comparison, with less depth and 3D sound stage.

QX-5 soundstage and sense of depth and separation (of instruments) is amazing. Very holographic. 

By comparison the Yggy is smaller and flatter sounding (stage and depth.)

But, again, the tradeoff is the too forward HF sometimes and with certain instruments with the QX-5. It can be too intense. I’m worried about potential of listening fatigue. However, the effect while listening short term has been addicting.

Very tough decision between the two DACs.

I know @ctsooner and others have owned a QX-5 before. 

The unit has about 100 hours on it. I have tried both USB and AES. (AES might be a bit less bright, but I’m not totally sure though.)

Any thoughts here? Is the QX-5 bright, for those who have owned it? Is it a matter if break in? Is it my speaker set up, with the toe in (using the darker Yggy DAC)? I know this is all in the abstract, since you can’t be in my room, but I’d love any insights, thoughts, suggestions.

Thanks, all.

 

12 hours ago, ursus13 said:

Looking for some guidance:

I’m auditioning an Ayre QX-5 Twenty (with the new USB and Ether modules and latest firmware) until the 20th. I’ve had it in my system for about 8 days. 

My system is: Lumin U1 Mini > QX-5 Twenty > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Quatro CTs.

(Two months ago I moved the speakers further apart with more toe-in and I really like the staging, imaging, and musical engagement.)

Current DAC is a Schiit Yggdrasil.

A/B listening between DACs this weekend. QX-5 is so engaging. Detail for days. Sound stage is epic. The tradeoff is that some tracks sound bright, where some instruments are too forward (cymbals, hi hat, sax, etc).

The Yggy by comparison sounds more laid back with these same tracks/instruments. But the Yggy is also darker overall by comparison, with less depth and 3D sound stage.

QX-5 soundstage and sense of depth and separation (of instruments) is amazing. Very holographic. 

By comparison the Yggy is smaller and flatter sounding (stage and depth.)

But, again, the tradeoff is the too forward HF sometimes and with certain instruments with the QX-5. It can be too intense. I’m worried about potential of listening fatigue. However, the effect while listening short term has been addicting.

Very tough decision between the two DACs.

I know @ctsooner and others have owned a QX-5 before. 

The unit has about 100 hours on it. I have tried both USB and AES. (AES might be a bit less bright, but I’m not totally sure though.)

Any thoughts here? Is the QX-5 bright, for those who have owned it? Is it a matter if break in? Is it my speaker set up, with the toe in (using the darker Yggy DAC)? I know this is all in the abstract, since you can’t be in my room, but I’d love any insights, thoughts, suggestions.

Thanks, all.

 

12 hours ago, ursus13 said:

Looking for some guidance:

I’m auditioning an Ayre QX-5 Twenty (with the new USB and Ether modules and latest firmware) until the 20th. I’ve had it in my system for about 8 days. 

My system is: Lumin U1 Mini > QX-5 Twenty > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Quatro CTs.

(Two months ago I moved the speakers further apart with more toe-in and I really like the staging, imaging, and musical engagement.)

Current DAC is a Schiit Yggdrasil.

A/B listening between DACs this weekend. QX-5 is so engaging. Detail for days. Sound stage is epic. The tradeoff is that some tracks sound bright, where some instruments are too forward (cymbals, hi hat, sax, etc).

The Yggy by comparison sounds more laid back with these same tracks/instruments. But the Yggy is also darker overall by comparison, with less depth and 3D sound stage.

QX-5 soundstage and sense of depth and separation (of instruments) is amazing. Very holographic. 

By comparison the Yggy is smaller and flatter sounding (stage and depth.)

But, again, the tradeoff is the too forward HF sometimes and with certain instruments with the QX-5. It can be too intense. I’m worried about potential of listening fatigue. However, the effect while listening short term has been addicting.

Very tough decision between the two DACs.

I know @ctsooner and others have owned a QX-5 before. 

The unit has about 100 hours on it. I have tried both USB and AES. (AES might be a bit less bright, but I’m not totally sure though.)

Any thoughts here? Is the QX-5 bright, for those who have owned it? Is it a matter if break in? Is it my speaker set up, with the toe in (using the darker Yggy DAC)? I know this is all in the abstract, since you can’t be in my room, but I’d love any insights, thoughts, suggestions.

Thanks, all.

ursus13, my experience is a component that sounds great in many ways but a little bright on some recordings has more to do with recording quality.  If a component is bright, it is bright on everything.  On the recordings that are slightly bright try lowering the volume a bit.  Increased resolution does reveal recording quality, but the rewards are the good stuff gets more engaging!  RV

[ursus13]

Thank you guys for chiming in.

Just to clarify, it sounds bright on everything, but is especially noticeable on certain records where there is a hi hat that is recorded w a close mic, or vocal sibilance, distorted guitars, lots of cymbals, etc.

Most of the time the brightness comes off as airiness and detail. But it’s always there.

I tried toeing out more, but the center imaging gets soft and overall it sounds darker/bassier, like I’m sitting in the wrong position.

@Richard Vandersteen, lowering the volume is exactly right, I actually do it naturally as I listen, riding the volume song to song. And, I notice that I listen at a much lower overall volume with my Quatros than I do on other people’s systems/speakers. I get the listening experience/effect I want at a lower SPL on your speakers.

@GdnrBob I use BlueJeans cables throughout.

I have not owned a ton of DACs. I owned a Chord Hugo TT2, that I bought used (so it was broken in) and I didn’t respond to the sound. (The user interface also drove me nuts, all style and form over function.)

Wondering if someone with QX-5 Twenty ownership experience, or an overall survey of DAC ownership has any thoughts.

Thanks again!

[BKDad]

As I've mentioned elsewhere, we are using an Ayre QB-9 Twenty DAC.  According to Ayre, anyway, it's very similar in use and performance to the latest QX-5 variant.  But, unlike the QX-5 which has lots of input source options and a headphone output, the QB-9 does only one trick - USB input and fixed line level outputs.

Here is my experience.  Take it for what you paid for it.

I've added an AC line filter to the power line input for the QB-9.  It made a very positive difference.  Not subtle.

I've also added a USB isolator between the source computer and the QB-9.  Also, a very positive difference.  Even less subtle than the AC line filter.

I also have found that the cables really matter.  Again, too long for discussion here.  For me, Curious USB cables have been by far the best.  And, I've tried far too many cables than I want to admit.

A friend of mine - not a Vandersteen owner - uses a QX-5 as well as another DAC that's even more expensive.  His experiences have mirrored mine, pretty much exactly.

Digital products have as many or more usage quirks as regular analog gear.  It's all the same basic underlying physics, but for a bunch of reasons, they often manifest themselves more with digital gear.  Too long to go into here.  Thus, the flaws with less than ideal digital music reproduction tend to be more irritating than what's found with vinyl playback, at least in my experience.   I think that's because analog deficiencies tend to be masking in nature.  That is, a lot of second harmonic distortion may not be accurate, for example, but it's kind of pleasant to listen to and it tends to hide problems with higher order distortion.  Problems with digital often are very mathematically similar to analog problems,  but because of the sampling frequencies and all that jazz, the distortion doesn't sound as acceptable because of just how the desired signal gets distorted.  In concept, that's similar to the problems that can be observed in amplification that uses global feedback.  Plus, a lot of digital gear, from the serving computers to the DACs, really hasn't been as thoroughly refined as analog gear has been from way more than a half century of development.  Finally, what gets measured and how it gets measured really isn't indicative of the actual performance in a system that you'd use at home.  Bits are bits, right?  (Tell that to a telecommunications system engineer...)

Again, my take.

[GdnrBob]

Given Mr. V's response, and your re-toeing of the speakers, I will take back my original response.

I asked about the cables, as these sometimes influence what is heard. 

I have no experience with Blue Jeans cables, but I have found Audioquest to be a good match with our speakers. If it is possible to have your dealer lend you some different cables (even non AQ), I think it might be a way to see if that is what is causing the brightness.

B

 

[GdnrBob]

@BKDad, you confirmed my thinking on the 'Ayre sound'. I asked Ryan about the DAC's and he said much the same as you. (I, too, use a QB9 Twenty for the office).

And, I agree with your thinking about all the timing/distortion/feedback.

@ctsooner, is looking at some very interesting gear that seems to address these issues. Perhaps he will chime in.

@ursus13.

Sorry we are moving into somewhat esoteric lands, but digital can get a bit techy at times.🤪

I do think that inserting some different cables might lead to a significant change in sound reproduction.

B

[ctsooner]

Guys, I’m on the elliptical ow. When I have some time later, I’ll share. It’s not bright unless recordings are bright. Cables, cords and power are huge factors. Also, the Ayre is so transparent, that often times folks need to hear what truly neutral can sound like. Remember our speakers will show all the warts in a system. Yes, I have two Ethernet devices I’m auditioning from Waversa. They are both outstanding in their price ranges. I’ve haven’t listened to music so much since I sold my Basis to Jim. 

[ursus13]

@ctsooner Looking forward to your thoughts. 

[Holmz]

On 7/17/2023 at 2:50 AM, ursus13 said:

….

@Richard Vandersteen, lowering the volume is exactly right, I actually do it naturally as I listen, riding the volume song to song. And, I notice that I listen at a much lower overall volume with my Quatros than I do on other people’s systems/speakers. I get the listening experience/effect I want at a lower SPL on your speakers.

…

Is the SPL something that is quantifiable like with an SPL meter or phone SPL app?

 

On 7/16/2023 at 11:52 AM, ursus13 said:

Looking for some guidance:

I’m auditioning an Ayre QX-5 Twenty (with the new USB and Ether modules and latest firmware) until the 20th. I’ve had it in my system for about 8 days. 

My system is: Lumin U1 Mini > QX-5 Twenty > Ayre AX-5 Twenty > Quatro CTs.

(Two months ago I moved the speakers further apart with more toe-in and I really like the staging, imaging, and musical engagement.)

Current DAC is a Schiit Yggdrasil.

A/B listening between DACs this weekend. QX-5 is so engaging. Detail for days. Sound stage is epic. The tradeoff is that some tracks sound bright, where some instruments are too forward (cymbals, hi hat, sax, etc).

The Yggy by comparison sounds more laid back with these same tracks/instruments. But the Yggy is also darker overall by comparison, with less depth and 3D sound stage.

QX-5 soundstage and sense of depth and separation (of instruments) is amazing. Very holographic. 

By comparison the Yggy is smaller and flatter sounding (stage and depth.)

But, again, the tradeoff is the too forward HF sometimes and with certain instruments with the QX-5. It can be too intense. I’m worried about potential of listening fatigue. However, the effect while listening short term has been addicting.

Very tough decision between the two DACs.

I know @ctsooner and others have owned a QX-5 before. 

The unit has about 100 hours on it. I have tried both USB and AES. (AES might be a bit less bright, but I’m not totally sure though.)

Any thoughts here? Is the QX-5 bright, for those who have owned it? Is it a matter if break in? Is it my speaker set up, with the toe in (using the darker Yggy DAC)? I know this is all in the abstract, since you can’t be in my room, but I’d love any insights, thoughts, suggestions.

Thanks, all.

Do either of the DACs have any built in DSP filters to tilt the output spectrum up or down? 

[ursus13]

5 minutes ago, Holmz said:

Is the SPL something that is quantifiable like with an SPL meter or phone SPL app?

Yes, I use the NIOSH SLM app.

6 minutes ago, Holmz said:

Do either of the DACs have any built in DSP filters to tilt the output spectrum up or down? 

The Ayre has three filters, but two of them are for technical uses, a measurement mode (which can be used for increased HF detail if desired), and a TV mode (for better audio/visual synch.) I have the input sent to the standard “music” mode.

[Holmz]

What sort of NIOSH levels are you listening to on your system, versus others systems?

I ask because my speakers often sound quieter than others, and other speakers that I rate, have the same characteristic.
(Maybe the bass is stronger on mine, and that pushes the meter higher, but the upper registers are actually no louder? (I dunno)
I attribute it to lower distortion, but it might not be.)

 

On 7/16/2023 at 11:52 AM, ursus13 said:

Any thoughts here? Is the QX-5 bright, for those who have owned it? Is it a matter if break in? Is it my speaker set up, with the toe in (using the darker Yggy DAC)? I know this is all in the abstract, since you can’t be in my room, but I’d love any insights, thoughts, suggestions.

If the speakers and the rest of the chain are the same, then it is the two DACs that differ. 
Some shelving EQ could likely equalize them to seem the same.

if the toe etc is resulting in a wide and deep stage, then it seems like it is right.

[ctsooner]

Finally have time to post.  I have a couple of hours before my 'next'.  Streaming Amy Lee and Evanescence.  I just love her voice as well as her dark writing.  It's a live recording, but I still got a few goosebumps without goosing the volume.  This is all running straight to the amps from the Brinkmann and using Roon as my volume control.  Man I can't wait to get a preamp! 😉. 

Ok, I have been using the Waversa EXT1 right before my server/streamer ethernet input from the router directly.  It's done a better job in my system than any of the optical converters I've used and that includes some expensive ones with 1k+ LPS's.  This is an $800 small passive device.  I don't know how it works, but it takes a good 50 hours to burn in and has a magnetic deal built into it.  I was really listing to music more and more and loving it.  Then they sent me their $5k (list) reference EXT device that uses even different tech than the EXT1 and soon to be upgraded 2.  

Everything is just better.  It's a much more relaxed presentation. I wonder if it's lowering the different jitters in addition to getting rid of most of the EMI/RFI.  John (NA distributor) won't share that as he's not allowed to.  All I know is that if you play digital, you need to try the EXT1 at a min and probably the 2 that will be released soon.  That said, this ref piece isn't going anywhere.  It's that special in my system.  I'm blown away by what I'm hearing and what I'm not hearing.  With it in the system, I am getting details that I've not heard yet. I wish I had vinyl still to try and do an A/B deal, but I honestly don't care.  I'm really enjoying music again in so many ways. I'm listening to a ton more classical as well as my favorite lesser recorded songs.  For me there is a new found enjoyment is the same way as when I changed from ProAc's to Vandy's (original Treo's).  I'm going to ask John to try the USB Ref unit too as I want to see what it can do for my USB connection.  One thing that I just noticed is that th overhang of the piano notes on this album 'right' than without any filters being used. I literally just took the unit out of the system and it was obvious that the unit is doing something really nice things.  I also think using a Brinkmann which seems to convert everything to DSD with this device lowers the post ringing in a big way.  I may be way off as I'm not an engineer, but I've also listened to other top systems recently (visiting a couple of local shops, who's owners I've known for years).

Sorry to go on and on, but these are not expensive and they are all passive devices that I have been really loving having in my systems.  I do wish the Vandy dealers would audition the Waversa devices and make their own decisions.  I do believe strongly that no matter what digital you are using, that you should strongly consider using at minimum an optical isolation device and that these passive devices mean one less power supply in the system etc...  No brainer to me, but that's just me in my own system.  YMMV as it always does with digital .

[ursus13]

@ctsooner Thanks for the recommendations, I’ll Look into the units you mentioned. 

I know you owned a QX-5 Twenty, I’d be interested in hearing the quick take on your experience with it.

If you’re enjoying ethereal female vocals with dark lyrics, you might check out Phoebe Bridgers. Her album Punisher is worth a listen.

This cover of Radiohead she did is pretty special:

Thanks all for the discussion.

If any of you have had an experience where your system verged on “too resolving,” (fatiguing?) and how you alleviated that effect, I’d love to hear about it.

Cheers.

[ctsooner]

46 minutes ago, ursus13 said:

@ctsooner Thanks for the recommendations, I’ll Look into the units you mentioned. 

I know you owned a QX-5 Twenty, I’d be interested in hearing the quick take on your experience with it.

If you’re enjoying ethereal female vocals with dark lyrics, you might check out Phoebe Bridgers. Her album Punisher is worth a listen.

This cover of Radiohead she did is pretty special:

Thanks all for the discussion.

If any of you have had an experience where your system verged on “too resolving,” (fatiguing?) and how you alleviated that effect, I’d love to hear about it.

Cheers.

She looks way too cheerful, lol..hehe... I'll check her out for sure. 

I loved the QX5/20.  Ayre has a certain, clean sound.  At first you don't notice their gear and it may seem not as exciting as others. It won't have the 'tube' emotion as many discuss.  Why it is, is acurate as heck.  It's very very revealing and in a great way.  It never sounds analytic though. Every from what I've enjoyed over the years.  I had the original one and I know how much extra those new boards do as I have heard the newest unit once in a friends system.  I loved what I heard and it's easily a last DAC/Digital control unit for most.

What it's not, is a reference unit. This is in no way the best Ayre can and will bring to market.  I have to believe they will eventually make THAT unit and I can't wait to hear it.  The best way to appreciate Ayre is to take the unit out of your system and install something that's in the similar price range to a bit over the range (most of their current products) and you will hear the difference.  

I remember when the Mimas came out and everyone was. saying how it's as good or better than the AX5/20.  I never got that. First off the Ayre costs much more, but more importantly, when you audition both in the same system, you can hear the amazing things that Ayre does or even at times, doesn't do.  It's a legit high end piece of gear to my ears (not taking bout lower than the 5 line).  Throw in the fact that it does all it does and you can't go wrong.  That headphone amp is amazing too (I have very high end IEM"s and have used it with Kennertons and other top cans.  I also like the volume control if you dont' have a preamp. It's one of the few that is decent.  

[Brad O]

After moving the speakers, I am ensuring you checked your system's geometry.  Are they still level, and does the top of the speaker point 8 inches above your ear canal (check with a laser pointer)?  If you move your head up and down, is there a spot where it is better?  Cables are antennas for noise which renders as a nasality in female vocals for me.  Therefore, I also recommend you borrow some quality cables from AudioQuest before moving forward.  Just let the dealer know you are experimenting for now with no obligation to buy.  They should help with this.  Of course, if it works, buy. 🙂

[ursus13]

48 minutes ago, Brad O said:

After moving the speakers, I am ensuring you checked your system's geometry.  Are they still level, and does the top of the speaker point 8 inches above your ear canal (check with a laser pointer)?  If you move your head up and down, is there a spot where it is better?  Cables are antennas for noise which renders as a nasality in female vocals for me.  Therefore, I also recommend you borrow some quality cables from AudioQuest before moving forward.  Just let the dealer know you are experimenting for now with no obligation to buy.  They should help with this.  Of course, if it works, buy. 🙂

Thanks for the good suggestions. 

Yes, I did recalibrate the speaker alignment with a laser after repositioning. I'm starting to think that the toe-in that I settled on might be emphasizing the HF too much? Which is frustrating because I really like what it's doing for the imaging and detail. Tradeoffs, I suppose. 

I'll plan to experiment with positioning again when I can carve out time. And I'll look into auditioning some cables. Where should I start, with speaker cables?

[Brad O]

54 minutes ago, ursus13 said:

Thanks for the good suggestions. 

Yes, I did recalibrate the speaker alignment with a laser after repositioning. I'm starting to think that the toe-in that I settled on might be emphasizing the HF too much? Which is frustrating because I really like what it's doing for the imaging and detail. Tradeoffs, I suppose. 

I'll plan to experiment with positioning again when I can carve out time. And I'll look into auditioning some cables. Where should I start, with speaker cables?

Yes, start with the speaker cables, but don't ignore the others.  Toe in is a great place to experiment.  I usually concentrate on the soundstage depth, and when it jumps from shallow to deep, I stop.  Others concentrate on tonality, which may work better for you.  

 

[BKDad]

Do you find more toe-in gives more depth?  Or, does it depend on the room and all that stuff?

[GdnrBob]

@ctsooner,

I will pick up one of the EXT-Ethernet units, as the price is right for me. I guess I should ask if the newer model will be priced similarly...

@ursus13,

That HF beaming makes me think the cables might be introducing something unwanted. As @Brad O suggests, try some AQ cables. GO-4's speaker cables are relatively inexpensive, and will give you a good idea of the AQ 'sound', and are easily available used. Though the newer Garth Powell models are a bit more expensive, but really let the music flow.

Hopefully, your dealer has AQ that he/she can loan you.

Bob

 

[Holmz]

39 minutes ago, BKDad said:

Do you find more toe-in gives more depth?  Or, does it depend on the room and all that stuff?

Distance from the wall behind them seem like it might be a factor of some models (e.g. my 2C).

[ursus13]

3 hours ago, ctsooner said:

She looks way too cheerful, lol..hehe... I'll check her out for sure. 

 

@ctsoonerI don't think Phoebe Bridgers and "cheerful" have ever been in the same room together. Probably not even the same building. LOL.

Appreciate the insights @ctsooner, this reflects my experience with Ayre as well. 

They have an R series digital hub in development that will be coming out in the near future. I'm looking forward to that as well.

38 minutes ago, Brad O said:

 Toe in is a great place to experiment.  I usually concentrate on the soundstage depth, and when it jumps from shallow to deep, I stop.  Others concentrate on tonality, which may work better for you.  

@Brad O Yes, the stage depth is what I'm digging at the moment. The trade off is the elevated HF since the tweeters are aimed more directly at the listener. With these carbon tweeters aimed too directly at you, a drummer riding hi hat can be something you feel in your teeth.

I'll look into some AQ speaker cables.

24 minutes ago, BKDad said:

Do you find more toe-in gives more depth?  Or, does it depend on the room and all that stuff?

@BKDad For me it is both. My speakers were about 8' apart, with the listening position about 8-9' from each speaker. I recently moved the speakers 3+ feet further apart, with more toe in. The effect is that the sound stage, which was compact and tight in the previous speaker position, opened up and became much wider (obviously) but the center imaging became soft. The added toe-in sharpened the center image and expanded the sense of depth, incidentally it also increased the detail. What used to be just a cymbal on a jazz track, I can now hear with intense precision, the difference between the wood of the drum stick and where it is hitting the brass cymbal itself. (It's like 8K resolution on an 8K monitor, where you can see the veins in the leaves on the tree in the background.) Which makes sense, since the tweeter is aimed more directly at the listening position.

As far as room, etc. I have been experimenting by moving my glass top coffee table out of the center of the room. I think it's surface might be reflecting the HF and increasing the HF at the listening position, but I'm still assessing.

@GdnrBob I have a set of Go4 cables that I used in my previous system with VLR CT speakers. Unfortunately they are too short for my current set up. Garth Powell is the designer of the newer line of AQ cables?

[ctsooner]

He’s, hey hired him years ago and babe him carte Blanche. He’s finally gotten around to interconnects this past year. Just so neutral up and down the line. 

[GdnrBob]

6 hours ago, ctsooner said:

He’s, hey hired him years ago and babe him carte Blanche. He’s finally gotten around to interconnects this past year. Just so neutral up and down the line. 

I think it should read-

They hired him years ago and gave him Carte Blanche.

B

[GdnrBob]

@ursus13,

Yes, Garth's contributions have really made a significant contribution/upgrade to AQ's product lineup.

Both I and @ctsooner, heard the William Tell speaker cables at Audioconnection. And, it was a revelation. And, I am not kidding.

I was in the camp of denial that cables could make a significant difference in sound reproduction, but those cables blew me away. The VLR's that were hooked up sounded like the Sub 3 was connected, but it wasn't. 

After that, I converted all my cabling to AQ.

Bob