Need advice on amp

[BartJY]

Hi Folks,

Currently my 2Ces are being powered by a NAD C 272 amp. It puts out 150 watts per channel. In the manual it says that the 2Ces should be powered with an amp that ranges between 40 to 160 watts per channel. Recently I've been thinking about more powerful amps, two Emotiva XPA HC-1 mono block, at 300 watts per amp. My question is, will 300 watts fry my beloved 2Ces? I never crank up the 2Ces extremely loud.

Thanks.

Edited August 12, 2023 by BartJY

[bkeske]

@BartJY No they won’t fry them unless you turn it up too loud, then yes, you could. Just be judicious and you will be fine. More overhead is better. I have 200w Belles mono blocks driving my Treo’s, and usually never set the volume more than halfway, which equates to about 85-90db, and is more than loud enough.

Edited August 13, 2023 by bkeske

[BartJY]

Thank you for the response.

Let me ask one more question.

Is the combination of the NAD C162 preamp and two Emotiva XPA HC-1 mono blocks a good combination of equiptment to drive the 2Ces? Or put simply, is it a good sounding combination? Your thoughts?

Thanks

Bart

[BartJY]

I'm starting to read not so great things about Emotiva, build quality and design problems. Your thoughts?

[ctsooner]

What you want is a zero feedback set of mono's if you can afford the right ones.  NAD, Rotel, Belles, Simaudio and many others fit this bill.  Mono's so you can use very short speaker cables as longer cables to negatively affect the sound.  Don't focus on the wattage. Focus on the quality and you will be just fine. What size is the room and what levels do you normally listen to?  

Those are very important to know before just buying amps for me.  What is your budget?  That's THE more important thing. Do you have a Vandy dealer near you?  They will not only have and know the right amps, but they may also have used amps that will be even better values for you.  

[BartJY]

A Vandersteen dealer near by. I hadn't thought of that. I will check into it.

Thanks

[Boom Boom]

Hello

You might want to save your pennies until you can get something that should trounce your current NAD amp. In my experience, it's not the watt quantity that matters, but rather the quality. Thus the different cost between amplifiers.

An audiophile friend of my used Emotiva monos, not sure of the model number. He runs KEF R3's. He uses a McIntosh SACD player with variable outputs to control volume. He replaced the Emotivas with a Benchmark stereo amp. He relies on equipment reviews from Gramophone Magazine. He's a former professional musician. Our systems sound different. With Careful setup we have optimized sound given our room limitations. He uses a Furutech power conditioner. He complained that the Emotivas ran hot. I read the description from the Emotiva website. These amps use a switchmode power supply. This is indicative of a Class D power amp.

With my model 2s, I went from a 120 Wpc Acoustat TNT-120 to a Simaudio Moon W5. The W5 is rated at 190 Wpc 8 ohms, 380 Wpc 4 ohms, and 750 Wpc 2 ohms. Although I have unfolded my old 2C's I never needed all the power available. The SPL in my apartments was enough to serenade the neighborhood if I wanted. It wasn't that I wanted to play my model 2s louder, I wanted to extract more musical details. The W5 did not disappoint.

The best lower power rated amp I've heard with Model 2s was the Robertson 40/10 (rated at 40 Wpc). I don't think Robertson is still around, but the amp earned the Peter Aczel's Audio Critic's higher rating. It lived up to the hype.

Vandersteen Model 2s are "sensitive" in the highs. If there's improvements you will notice, it will be very obvious there. Superior driver control will improve other performance aspects. Smaller power rated mono (and stereo) tube amps tend to be popular to mate with Model 2s. Best to do an in-home trial.

[Holmz]

On 8/13/2023 at 7:45 AM, BartJY said:

Currently my 2Ces are being powered by a NAD C 272 amp. It puts out 150 watts per channel. In the manual it says that the 2Ces should be powered with an amp that ranges between 40 to 160 watts per channel. Recently I've been thinking about more powerful amps, two Emotiva XPA HC-1 mono block, at 300 watts per amp. My question is, will 300 watts fry my beloved 2Ces?

They will get the same power at the same volume.

 

On 8/13/2023 at 7:45 AM, BartJY said:

I never crank up the 2Ces extremely loud.

It is a crap shoot as to whether it will sound better or not.
Even if the amp was the same in all sonic respects - by going to mono blocks one gets a shorter speaker wire, and that usually is noticeably better.

Personally I’d stay with the NAD unless you can have listen to the Emotivas.

[GdnrBob]

14 hours ago, Holmz said:

Personally I’d stay with the NAD unless you can have listen to the Emotivas.

I agree, you really should try to listen to the Emotiva, before making the plunge.

I have no experience with Emotiva. But, I wanted to point out that amps with zero feedback almost always seem to be the best mates with our speakers. That being said, I suggest looking at Ayre. They had the AX7e integrated, which should work with the 2's (75wpc?) and has a fine preamp stage. You can find them used for a bit over $1K. 

Belles is also a good choice. And, there are monoblocks available at a very reasonable price.

John Rutan (audioconnection) is a good person to consult for free advice and no pushy salemanship. PM me if you want his number.

Bob

[MNSki]

On 8/12/2023 at 5:15 PM, BartJY said:

Hi Folks,

Currently my 2Ces are being powered by a NAD C 272 amp. It puts out 150 watts per channel. In the manual it says that the 2Ces should be powered with an amp that ranges between 40 to 160 watts per channel. Recently I've been thinking about more powerful amps, two Emotiva XPA HC-1 mono block, at 300 watts per amp. My question is, will 300 watts fry my beloved 2Ces? I never crank up the 2Ces extremely loud.

Thanks.

Is there a price point you are trying to stay under or around?

[Holmz]

Another option is to pick up another NAD. That model says it is bridgable to 300W, or maybe use a Y and power upper and lower posts from the two channels

In my experience, you would be better off with the external crossover and the Vandy powered sub.
Both come up used, and it should be an improvement.
The amps are a crapshoot in comparison, they not always a sure thing.
 

[ctsooner]

On 8/13/2023 at 9:12 PM, Boom Boom said:

Hello

You might want to save your pennies until you can get something that should trounce your current NAD amp. In my experience, it's not the watt quantity that matters, but rather the quality. Thus the different cost between amplifiers.

An audiophile friend of my used Emotiva monos, not sure of the model number. He runs KEF R3's. He uses a McIntosh SACD player with variable outputs to control volume. He replaced the Emotivas with a Benchmark stereo amp. He relies on equipment reviews from Gramophone Magazine. He's a former professional musician. Our systems sound different. With Careful setup we have optimized sound given our room limitations. He uses a Furutech power conditioner. He complained that the Emotivas ran hot. I read the description from the Emotiva website. These amps use a switchmode power supply. This is indicative of a Class D power amp.

With my model 2s, I went from a 120 Wpc Acoustat TNT-120 to a Simaudio Moon W5. The W5 is rated at 190 Wpc 8 ohms, 380 Wpc 4 ohms, and 750 Wpc 2 ohms. Although I have unfolded my old 2C's I never needed all the power available. The SPL in my apartments was enough to serenade the neighborhood if I wanted. It wasn't that I wanted to play my model 2s louder, I wanted to extract more musical details. The W5 did not disappoint.

The best lower power rated amp I've heard with Model 2s was the Robertson 40/10 (rated at 40 Wpc). I don't think Robertson is still around, but the amp earned the Peter Aczel's Audio Critic's higher rating. It lived up to the hype.

Vandersteen Model 2s are "sensitive" in the highs. If there's improvements you will notice, it will be very obvious there. Superior driver control will improve other performance aspects. Smaller power rated mono (and stereo) tube amps tend to be popular to mate with Model 2s. Best to do an in-home trial.

I loved my Roberson amp that I got from Bruce in SD. Used the CJ preamp. I bought them the day I met Richard for the first time in 1983. 
 

I too ran an Ayre AX7 (latest model upgrade they offered). It was amazing with the olde Treos. 

[Boom Boom]

I was curious as to what my friend previously owned in the Emotiva monos. After reading up, I'm pretty certain he had the Gen 2 versions. I remember he told me that they were the cheapest class A amps he could find. Currently Emotivas are in Gen 3. They no longer use the traditional 'analogue' power supplies and went switch mode. The Gen 2's had a switch to operate them continuously in Class A (at reduced power). This is why he complained they ran hot. I don't recall hearing these with his KEFs. He upgraded his amps and speaker at around the same time.

I found a Stereophile review on Emotiva's stereo version of their Gen 3 amp. You might find it helpful, if not entertaining. It's here: https://www.stereophile.com/content/emotiva-xpa-gen3-two-channel-power-amplifier

They went to "class H". What I picked up reading between the lines is the power supply switches between a higher power rail and a lower power rail depending on music demands. The review lists the associated equipment used for review which I find very helpful. He reported different results with different speakers. Some not so successful. This last observation is why I agree with others that you need to try them in home with your own setup. They sell direct and you have 30 days to decide to keep. Some of that time will be spent burning in the new amps. So be aware.

 

Cheers! 😀

[BartJY]

I looked at the specs for the Emotiva XPA HC-1s and the THD is .1 which is not good.

[Holmz]

20 minutes ago, BartJY said:

I looked at the specs for the Emotiva XPA HC-1s and the THD is .1 which is not good.

At full power or where?
There is also where those harmonics spray out, like 2nd,, 3rd, harmonic etc.

Noise and hiss, can be more of a deal breaker for some.

[ctsooner]

I am trying to help a buddy of mine finally put a system together.  He is hard headed and knows everything, but he's a good guy.  I told him to look at the VLR or 1's, but a buddy in OKC who works at Best Buy had a customer walk away from $3000 pair of B&W's, so they sold them to him for 1500 (the new series is already out and the next one is about to come out).  That alone was strange.  Now he wants an integrated (with streamer most probably) and keeps telling me it has to be 150W, because that's what the specs are.  Then he keeps throwing out other specs and ohms and........  It's frustrating to say the least.  

I'll jus post what I told him.  Go listen.  Hear how it sounds and not how the specs read.  I think the NAD M10 or Rotel all in one are great options for him.  I think he'll actually get the NAD as he's heard the brand and liked it. 

Not sure why this thread made me go there, but it did. Thanks for reading. I can't get you this 60 sec back.  Sorry

[Stringreen]

10 hours ago, ctsooner said:

I am trying to help a buddy of mine finally put a system together.  He is hard headed and knows everything, but he's a good guy.  I told him to look at the VLR or 1's, but a buddy in OKC who works at Best Buy had a customer walk away from $3000 pair of B&W's, so they sold them to him for 1500 (the new series is already out and the next one is about to come out).  That alone was strange.  Now he wants an integrated (with streamer most probably) and keeps telling me it has to be 150W, because that's what the specs are.  Then he keeps throwing out other specs and ohms and........  It's frustrating to say the least.  

I'll jus post what I told him.  Go listen.  Hear how it sounds and not how the specs read.  I think the NAD M10 or Rotel all in one are great options for him.  I think he'll actually get the NAD as he's heard the brand and liked it. 

Not sure why this thread made me go there, but it did. Thanks for reading. I can't get you this 60 sec back.  Sorry

why don't you just walk away

[ctsooner]

It’s like he won’t let me lol.  Let’s see if he’s serious about getting what I told him. He said after LD so we will see. 

[Holmz]

On 9/2/2023 at 10:02 PM, ctsooner said:

I am trying to help a buddy of mine finally put a system together.  He is hard headed and knows everything, but he's a good guy.  I told him to look at the VLR or 1's, but a buddy in OKC who works at Best Buy had a customer walk away from $3000 pair of B&W's, so they sold them to him for 1500 (the new series is already out and the next one is about to come out).  That alone was strange.  Now he wants an integrated (with streamer most probably) and keeps telling me it has to be 150W, because that's what the specs are.  Then he keeps throwing out other specs and ohms and........  It's frustrating to say the least.  

I'll jus post what I told him.  Go listen.  Hear how it sounds and not how the specs read.  I think the NAD M10 or Rotel all in one are great options for him.  I think he'll actually get the NAD as he's heard the brand and liked it. 

Not sure why this thread made me go there, but it did. Thanks for reading. I can't get you this 60 sec back.  Sorry

Lyngdorf TDAI has all the crap he needs, and the Room Perfect.
If I was doing such a set up, I would be trying that.
Seriously!
it is like a Mercedes version of the NAD, with a lot of the same tech, and parent company (I believe)

But of course I have the short stack unboxed, and ready to get into a rack.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Holmz

[stebaht]

I had 2cE IIs powered by an NAD C375 integrated for years and loved it. Adding a pair of 2wQs certainly improved things (but that obviously takes the bass load off the amp) The whole setup has been sold off to a friend who is absolutely loving it. 
 

I used the NAD with 5As as well, for about 3-4 months before going ‘whole hog’ with the Vandersteen M5-HPAs. 
 

Listen to some gear and see how it goes!

FWIW I also drove the 2ces with and NAD D3020 for a bit and they still sounded great. That one is roughly 50wpc into the 2ce’s load.

[TomicTime]

Sold a ton of 3020 back in the day …great gutsy and warm sounding amplifier…. $218….. what a steal….

[ctsooner]

I owned a 3020 back in the day for second system.