Mike Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 hey there! glad to be part of this great family. I own old 2ce model . possibly be upgrading to the new sig III. I have 3 possible AMPs that im intrsted at. First I want the amp to be good syngrgy with the current 2ce but with possiblity for upgraded Speakers like the Model 7 etc.. 1. Acoustic Research - Reference 75SE 2. Pass Labs XA 30.5 3. Bryston 4b SST2 Thank you very much 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GdnrBob Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 All the amps listed would be nice choices. I would also consider Ayre, Aesthetix and Belles. If you have the funds, I would say buy the M5 amps and be done with it. (Especially as the AR amp retails for $10K). Bob 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 i have been trying to help you on Audiogon. Welcome to this forum. I used a ref75 with my model 7’s as a loaner while my 200 wpc Ayre was being upgraded. i would NOT recommend it or the small Pass labs for any Vandy north of the Quattro. Lets be realistic here, 7’s are $70 k + new. Suggest you look at amplifiers that work well w model 2 up thru Quattro $16 k new. Let’s also be realistic the M5 amps are $15 k new. Maybe a dealer has a used pair ? but the ARC you are looking at is $6k. Jim 253-431-6735 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 17, 2022 Author Share Posted January 17, 2022 what is M5 amps? sadly i dont have in my country any used Ayre amps for sell, i got offer for the Aesthetix Mimas but its for the exact same price as the AR Ref 75SE which is probably better for 100%. i found Belles but its 150a . not sure if thats in aline with the other Amps i have listed. do u think Aesthetix Mimas vs AR/bryston is the same level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 17, 2022 Author Share Posted January 17, 2022 It doesnt let me to Edit for some reason. just saw your comment @TomicTime if we being realistic well you pertty right. my budget is pretty shrinked atm. i didnt know the 7 cost that much ^^ anyway my amp budget is at max 6k$ and also the used market here is pretty small. so those are the best 3 i could find atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 what preamp do you have ? Need to as best you can compare apples apples. The Mimas is an integrated so it has a built in relatively high grade preamp. In theory matching a REF75 with a similar high grade preamp would cost 1.5 -2x. For example ARCLS-26 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeske Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 @Mike For the 2CE’s a Belles 150 would work very well, I looked at them for my 2CE Sigs before stumbling onto my more rare Belles 400A. All Belles have high current designs, and have more than enough power to drive your 2CE’s. Would the 150 be an ‘end game’ amp should you move up to the Quattro or 7’s? No, probably not, I would strongly consider a Vandersteen amp at that point, but the 150’s can be purchased at a very reasonable price, and can probably be sold for what you bought them for in the future. I’m a bit biased, but think the Belles have a wonderfully ’sweet’ sound, and hard to beat for their cost. In my opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 well those are three very fine amplifiers and if they fit your budget would be very nice. My personal preference of the three is the ARC but on this forum there will be Vandersteen owners that have all three brands with different opinions. There are also several Mimas owners also. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 and knowledgeable Belles owners also !,,, thanks Brian 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeske Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Jim, if I had 6K to spend, I would probably consider the ARC too. But I’m a pretty happy Belles groupie right now, as you know 😁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmz Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Mike said: … sadly i dont have in my country any used Ayre amps for sell, … What country is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 I made a mistake.. found the Ayre dealer, will check with him tomorrow for used gear, the new one is really pricey, for example new arc ref75se here is around 15-14k 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) Btw as for the Bryston it will be the 4b sst2 amp BP-6 pre amp BDA-3 Dac all of them will be for 6k together the pass labs xa30.5 comes with XP-20 pre from PassLabs too and will be the most expensive deal out of the 3. Around 9k a bit less. Edited January 18, 2022 by Mike Miss type 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S. Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I think john rutan would disagree. Ive seen him run belles on the 5 and 7 and they sound glorious. I don't have that much money so i run a 2ce with a belles 150a hot rod and ive never been unhappy with the sound nor power it can deliver. I wanted a bryston originally but when john showed me the belles I was blown away. And it was $2000 cheaper at the tine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GdnrBob Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I saw your post on Audiogon, too. and replied that I didn't realize you are buying used. If you can find a used Ayre AX-7e integrated, it should be around $1500USD, and leave you money for some Vandy subs. The best part is that the high pass filter will relieve your amp from the heavy demands of the lower notes, and you can still use the subs if you upgrade to other models. Lastly, where are you located? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 my input was based on running 7’s on a 75 wpc ARC., in my room. I also mentioned a 30 wpc Pass as not advised. Possible a Belles works very well, haven’t heard that. I do know the early version of the M5 had to have output increased as it clipped on a favorite musical passage of the guy who invented the 7’s, 5’s etc…. I will text Johnny and see if he has a New Jersey clipping force field…. ha. all good. Jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) sorry for all the mess, I'm pertty new in this hobby and this is my first REAL system. I'm from israel, new gear here is ridiculously expensive that is why i look towards used gear. I live in a fairly small apartment and I dont listen at high volumes, that being said i dont want subwoofers, at least not now. The dealer who has the used VX-5 Twenty/KX-5 Twenty has also an Ayre AX-7 for sale. I will probably go with the higher grade amp/pre... maybe just the VX-5 twenty POWER and get a nice tube Preamp to match it. I'm still checking the ARC Reference 75SE which has the wierd quiet noise coming from him, anyways that amp is pretty expensive in my budget , but I'm willing to make that investment for future proof reasons. I Hope I have given a better information on my situtaion. If you need other info that would help you to help me go for it i will give any info that i can provide. I'm really looking towards finishing this first set up and enjoy the music in my house for the first time ! hoping to get the best out of my budget atm. thank you all for your help and tips. I really appreciate it, and hope that one day i could be the one giving tips 🙂 Mike Edited January 18, 2022 by Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 I made a sketch of my room. Hope It's clear enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmz Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) I am likely in the minority here. I hear things like “synergy” all the time, but here are some of the amps I have run: PSE Studio 1 Pre into Studio 2 100w/ch PSE Studio 1 Pre into VTL monoblocks (100w/ch) Audible Illusions Modulus Pre into the VTLs Audible Illusions Modulus Pre into old NAD Audible Illusions Modulus Pre into PrimaLuna ~35w/ch Honestly they have all sounded PDG (Pretty D*** Good). Even using the Mrs’ 30 year old NAD amp it sounded good. (Sounding much better than when that same amp was powering her speakers.) The biggest difference I have heard is the UltraLinear versus Triode using the Primauna remote. I would say whatever that local dealer has, that is not noisy, would likely be just fine. But I have always liked Nagra, ARC, Conrad-Johnson and McIntosh… a lot of it is just looks. So If one came up, say in Switzerland, personally I would just go get it if Covid allows it. Realistically I think you could find an amp at a pawnshop or garage sale and it would likely be just dandy. At least I have not heard the speakers sound bad… Just some amps seemed a bit better. You could do that, and then take your time searching for something to come up on the local used market. But if others have heard bad amps on the 2C, that would be nice to know. My experience is limited and I have not heard a bad setup yet. Edited January 19, 2022 by Holmz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Vandersteen Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Mike said: sorry for all the mess, I'm pertty new in this hobby and this is my first REAL system. I'm from israel, new gear here is ridiculously expensive that is why i look towards used gear. I live in a fairly small apartment and I dont listen at high volumes, that being said i dont want subwoofers, at least not now. The dealer who has the used VX-5 Twenty/KX-5 Twenty has also an Ayre AX-7 for sale. I will probably go with the higher grade amp/pre... maybe just the VX-5 twenty POWER and get a nice tube Preamp to match it. I'm still checking the ARC Reference 75SE which has the wierd quiet noise coming from him, anyways that amp is pretty expensive in my budget , but I'm willing to make that investment for future proof reasons. I Hope I have given a better information on my situtaion. If you need other info that would help you to help me go for it i will give any info that i can provide. I'm really looking towards finishing this first set up and enjoy the music in my house for the first time ! hoping to get the best out of my budget atm. thank you all for your help and tips. I really appreciate it, and hope that one day i could be the one giving tips 🙂 Mike Buy any of the ones you listed that you can borrow and listen to. If you like the sound your good. DO NOT BUY ANYTHING ON ANYONES SUGESTION, EVEN MINE WITHOUT LISTENING TO IT! I would not recommend our own M5-HPA without audition. Many hear differences and call them Day and Night while another will hear the same demo and call it a "small change". Expectations that are over done or under achieved are not good for this hobby/business. A good demo removes all the mystery. The one you know is better than the best for someone else because you picked it. RV 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkeske Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) One amp that didn’t sound so great with my 2CE’s was an old Nelson Pass designed Adcom GFA 545. Always wanted one, so finally got one used. Jim probably sold them years ago at an audio store in Columbus Ohio I used to visit. That was the first audio store I first saw Adcom’s, and lusted after them. Many years later, got one. Well, yea, the Adcom was powerful enough, but after a while just seemed to sound ‘cold’ and ‘hard’ to me, and thought I might be able to do better. So, after some research, I moved onto a used mosfet based B&K 125.2. That was an incredible improvement. Lush, warm, detailed, and made the 2CE’s sing vs the Adcom. I ended up selling both for what I bought them for when I found the Belles 400A. The Belles has the same musical sound signature as the B&K + more of everything the 125.1 was good at. The 200 wpc was certainly attractive to me as well, as it provided a lot of head room for the 2CE Sigs. Now, yea, some might be perfectly fine with the Adcom sound, I learned I liked something different. it’s all subjective in terms of what each of our ears desire. Edited January 19, 2022 by bkeske 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 I am enjoying the thread and thank you Mike for the sketch. This forum is for helping each other - you are in the right place and soon you will in turn be helping others 😉 i am pleased that you do have some great choices of gear there you can go hear in country. My best to you ! Jim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctsooner Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Yes, some great choices. As Richard and others have said, you have to audition. If for some reason you can't audition, then it's best to stick with the brands in this thread that folks talk about. ARC Aesthetix Ayre (for me only the newer 20 series like a used AX5/20 which is what I ran Treo and Quatro CT's with until I got Richards M5 amps) Belles and Sim Audio are two brands that cost a bit less at times and really deliver the goods. I'm not the biggest Bryston fan for Vandy's, but do like them driving the Maggies, but again, that's me and I've auditioned plenty of times over the years. Many do love that combo though...This is part of what makes this a fun hobby. Tons of choices and two ears. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share Posted January 23, 2022 Hey! I heard the Ayre VX-5 Twenty lovely amp really precised fast and natural. vs the REF 75 se... and that one would be my AMP.. it just blew me away I felt like the speakers aren’t there anymore and every thing felt so right and musical.. so if the Ayre was a really beautiful picutre , the ARC felt like I'm falling into the picutre . even tho i have to admit that the Ayre was doing better at some segments . the ARC was just more musical.. maybe im just a TUBE head idk 😄 It had more life to it and the vocals were by far superior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 🙂 great to hear you have fantastic choices. in the general range you are in Ayre and ARC both serve the music well. In the end it comes down to personal preference and emotional connection with the music. Enjoy Jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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