Bob Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 I am purchasing new speakers for either behind an Acoustically Transparent screen or placing them to the extreme outside of the screen. The outer edge from the screen to the wall is 13". That is enough space to put a Treos in the corner and perhaps one as the center channel behind the screen. I could also place all 3 behind the screen. I understand that these placements are terrible. I was wondering if Vandersteen speakers have wide dispersion or narrow and if either of these help in this scenario? I've used 3A Signatures, VCC-5, V2W and 2Ce Signatures for my past room with more optimal listening placement. The 3A is really too wide for this scenario unless I put them all behind the screen. The main listening distance is 15.25' from the screen. I have currently a 7.2.2 setup but am redoing the sound portion for the front and subs. Having used the VCC-5 in the past, I don't think it would be a good fit for behind the screen so perhaps 3 identical speakers will be used in this case. Thoughts on which Vandersteen's might work for this case? I am going to audition some Treos to see how they might work (or not). The AT screen definitely reduces the higher end of the frequency range. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Vandersteen Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 TREO CT's could work outside the screen with a VCC-2 CT for the center. A customer used 3 each VCC-2 CT's behind a Stewart Screen with the left and right speakers vertical and the center one horizontal to avoid coupling. He was very happy, but I have not heard this setup. Get your Vandersteen Dealer involved with this as he may have done an install like this or similar. Take advantage of his experience. Be sure to get the center 2 feet further away from the listener and lie to the processor and make all 3 distances the same. RV 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 15, 2022 Author Share Posted February 15, 2022 So are the Treo CTs a wide or narrow dispersion speaker compared to the 3A Sigs? The 3A Sigs are my point of reference and I never put them near a wall. Wondering how this will compare to the Treo? I set up a time to hear the Treos in early March. The nearest dealer is 5 hours away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Bob - I have owned both the Treo CT and the 3A-signature and i would say the Treo is MUCH more forgiving of a corner or adjacent surface. I think a call to @Richard Vandersteento network w your local dealer advised. Ten hours round trip a long haul. The 3a does have a formidable bottom end…. Best to you on a cool project 🙂 Jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 15, 2022 Author Share Posted February 15, 2022 @TomicTime any chance you used either one for a center channel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 1 minute ago, Bob said: @TomicTime any chance you used either one for a center channel? Sorry no but i am sure the frugal dutchman will have an $$$ saving alternative…… give him a call, factory # then press 2 my best to you cool project, well thought out…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 15, 2022 Author Share Posted February 15, 2022 @TomicTime thank you for the suggestion. I have really enjoyed all of the Vandersteen speakers I have owned except the center channels. I can’t imagine using one behind a screen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmz Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 I just got a used VCC-5. The horizontal dispersion seems good. You may want to have some dimensions for the distance and spacing to help choose a center channel in terms of angle. (For a 2 seat set up the center channel is probably not needed, as it is brilliant with a 4.1.) Every talks about center channel is the most important, but that seems more like lore than fact, unless it is 4 seats wide. I would think that the insertion loss of the screen would be good to know. Most of the AVRs have some room correction running, so it should boost it up if it is attenuated??. 9 hours ago, Bob said: I am purchasing new speakers for either behind an Acoustically Transparent screen or placing them to the extreme outside of the screen. The outer edge from the screen to the wall is 13". That is enough space to put a Treos in the corner and perhaps one as the center channel behind the screen. I could also place all 3 behind the screen. I understand that these placements are terrible. I was wondering if Vandersteen speakers have wide dispersion or narrow and if either of these help in this scenario? I've used 3A Signatures, VCC-5, V2W and 2Ce Signatures for my past room with more optimal listening placement. The 3A is really too wide for this scenario unless I put them all behind the screen. The main listening distance is 15.25' from the screen. I have currently a 7.2.2 setup but am redoing the sound portion for the front and subs. Having used the VCC-5 in the past, I don't think it would be a good fit for behind the screen so perhaps 3 identical speakers will be used in this case. Thoughts on which Vandersteen's might work for this case? I am going to audition some Treos to see how they might work (or not). The AT screen definitely reduces the higher end of the frequency range. … What didn‘t you like about the VCC-5 in the past? I am no expert, but the VSMs could be better than a 2C shoved against a wall. Not sure what load the Left and Right fronts do, in SPL load compared to rear and surrounds, But compression could be a reason to run bigger LF/RF speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 15, 2022 Author Share Posted February 15, 2022 The room size is roughly 13’ x 27’ x 10’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmz Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 (edited) 15 hours ago, Bob said: … I was wondering if Vandersteen speakers have wide dispersion or narrow and if either of these help in this scenario? I've used 3A Signatures, VCC-5, V2W and 2Ce Signatures for my past room with more optimal listening placement. The 3A is really too wide for this scenario unless I put them all behind the screen. … The 2C was ~+/-25 degrees :https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/vandersteen_model_2/ Maybe one could probably toe them in to get all the seats within the smallest angle possible? Edited February 15, 2022 by Holmz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Vandersteen Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 17 hours ago, Bob said: So are the Treo CTs a wide or narrow dispersion speaker compared to the 3A Sigs? The 3A Sigs are my point of reference and I never put them near a wall. Wondering how this will compare to the Treo? I set up a time to hear the Treos in early March. The nearest dealer is 5 hours away. Bob, the Treo CT is a minimal baffle design like all Vandersteen's so the pattern will be wide like all the others. Your room design is classic HT and the screen is large enough to keep from getting optimum placement for the left and right speaker. Screens have a larger effect on sound than the manufactures admit and their customers what to know about but normally is not a problem because one is visually distracted anyway. It won't have any negative effect on the theater experience but is a disaster for two channel audio. You could improve the sound a bit by going with Treo's all across but won't get 50 cents on the dollars' worth of improvement because of the screen and acoustical treatment typically used for HT. Your best bet is to get a used pair of 3A Sig (they have tweeter controls you could turn up) with as high a serial number as you can and use it for the center. You will then also have a spare. Take the Treo CT and put it in a room that's lived in with an integrated and enjoy your stereo without compromise. RV 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GdnrBob Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 As the speakers are being placed near corners, wouldn't the VLR's be something to consider? Toss in a VCC and, add some subs for the bottom end. Mind you, I have no expertise in home theater. But, just wanted to put this out there. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Vandersteen Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 VLR's would not handle the peak levels expected from HT! Other than that reliability issue they would work well. RV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 My brother has run a pair of 3a-sig for ten years, i owned them for twelve before that…. a superb value. I ran them w 200 wpc Mac, brother uses a Threshold w ARC preamp….great sound. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 16, 2022 Author Share Posted February 16, 2022 9 hours ago, TomicTime said: My brother has run a pair of 3a-sig for ten years, i owned them for twelve before that…. a superb value. I ran them w 200 wpc Mac, brother uses a Threshold w ARC preamp….great sound. I've had the 3A Signature, 2Ce Signature, V2W all for over 20 years and they were spectacular. I also had a VCC-5 for a shorter time. I sold all of my gear when I moved. I am now looking at my new house and reoutfitting as best as I can. For me, the 3A Signature is now the minimal viable option. Been listening to various theater rooms and they all have way too much base and it sounds unnatural as I believe the dealers want to sell you on the special effects explosions, ... Unfortunately, that is really an unnatural terrible sound. I just want to go back to the basics and get great speakers that I can use possibly in another room in the future. This house doesn't have a space similar to the old house that allows for a great 2 channel experience and a 5.1 surround experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 16, 2022 Author Share Posted February 16, 2022 Just as an FYI, the Stewart WallScreen Deluxe microperf design, they say that the treble is reduced 3db above 3khz. Similarly the brightness is reduced about 5%. They advise about 12” between the speakers and the screen. The idea of turning up the tweeter control sounds like a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmz Posted February 16, 2022 Share Posted February 16, 2022 In 2 channel that makes sense. In 5-7.x.x most of the processors will do it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Holmz said: In 2 channel that makes sense. In 5-7.x.x most of the processors will do it for you. The default correction range is 5 kHz. Although it can be lowered if needed, it cannot be raised since the microphone becomes directional at upper frequencies, affecting measurement accuracy. Basically, the processor normally will not correct lower output of frequencies above 5 kHz. The ability to raise it on the speaker will help. In movie theaters, I believe they actually mix the soundtrack with higher frequencies enhanced to correct for the screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Vandersteen Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 It is not just the attenuation of the screen that is an issue but also the attenuated energy is reflected back and forth behind the screen which finds its way through but smeared. No problem for movies as this is not about high definition anyway but for audio transparency, time, phase and nuance is what it's all about. RV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share Posted February 17, 2022 Agree on the reflections. Will put in 6” of Rockwool to try to minimize that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmz Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Maybe that foam with the eggshell would be worthwhile on the back wall? (The freqs are high.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Vandersteen Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Been there done that but it damps the typically over damped room even more! You will enjoy the movie just fine but you're going to spend a lot of money trying to get mediocre Stereo. RV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share Posted February 17, 2022 Don’t disagree. I like the idea of placing the Treos outside of the screen in the main room and using a 3A Sig for a center channel behind the screen. I would still put some sound dampening material in to cut down the reflections behind the screen. Rockwool has pretty good Acoustic performance in that respect. I moved my 3A Sigs in the past for movies and 2 channel listening. This room is a compromise at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share Posted February 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, Holmz said: Maybe that foam with the eggshell would be worthwhile on the back wall? (The freqs are high.) Rockwool has pretty good noise reduction performance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 I love my Treo CT for critical 2 channel listening….. wow do the do realism with a good recording… wishing you all the best in this project. Jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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