Treo CT’s to Quattro’s??

[Richard Vandersteen]

This is all true, but he could add the M5-HPB high-pass and drive his Rel's with an additional full range output from the pre-amp.  RV

[GdnrBob]

As Johnny Carson used to say-

'I did not know that"

B

[GdnrBob]

On 7/19/2022 at 6:16 PM, Richard Vandersteen said:

This is all true, but he could add the M5-HPB high-pass and drive his Rel's with an additional full range output from the pre-amp.  RV

But, if he added the crossovers, wouldn't he have to add a compensating increase at the sub balance the 1st order attenuation of the crossover to the amp?

I hope I got this correct, and forgive me if I have it wrong. Gardeners deal in more organic thinking. 

B

[TomicTime]

3 hours ago, GdnrBob said:

But, if he added the crossovers, wouldn't he have to add a compensating increase at the sub balance the 1st order attenuation of the crossover to the amp?

I hope I got this correct, and forgive me if I have it wrong. Gardeners deal in more organic thinking. 

B

No…by using a 2nd full range signal from the Preamp the filter in the REL will roll off high frequencies to the sub. Unfortunately it will NOT match the 6 db per octave slope  of the M5 high pass filter. We could probably argue for days about this….. but room nodes are likely to cause bigger frequency response anomaly  than  mismatched slopes… Room modes can be mostly corrected by the powerful ANALOG EQ in the sub 3 or Quattro….

 

good discussion.

[TomicTime]

keep thinking organic Bob….i could kill a plastic  plant !  the planet NEEDS you dude !

best

jim

[Cosmic]

Interesting discussion.  However, this train is four stations past my stop.  I am a plug and play type of guy, and this is well beyond my comfort zone.  I watched the videos on tuning the subs and crossovers and TBH, that’s not something I could do.  Is that a service that dealers normally provide as part of the sale?  Round trip drive time to my dealer is about 6 hours.  It sounds like tuning the Quattro’s and integrating the Rels could be problematic, at least for me.  Once fully dialed in, do settings drift over time?  I love the Vandersteen sound, but I wonder if the Q’s are not for technologically faint hearted guys like me?  

[ctsooner]

 Asked on where you live I assume Rutan is your dealer. I know for fact that he goes up there to set things up. I’m in CT and he comes to help when needed. 

[ctsooner]

Qi’s scared me at first too. Rutan dialed them in perfectly and they don’t change over time.  Even when left to zero, the bass is amazing. Don’t let that scare you off. I promise you as I’m a plug and play mostly too. With the MS I can’t move gear on my own that well. I use my son to help as he’s strong lol 

[Richard Vandersteen]

1 hour ago, Cosmic said:

Interesting discussion.  However, this train is four stations past my stop.  I am a plug and play type of guy, and this is well beyond my comfort zone.  I watched the videos on tuning the subs and crossovers and TBH, that’s not something I could do.  Is that a service that dealers normally provide as part of the sale?  Round trip drive time to my dealer is about 6 hours.  It sounds like tuning the Quattro’s and integrating the Rels could be problematic, at least for me.  Once fully dialed in, do settings drift over time?  I love the Vandersteen sound, but I wonder if the Q’s are not for technologically faint hearted guys like me?  

Take them out of the box and plug and play and you're at the same point as any other speaker or better.  Over time you can use some of the amazing adjustments and get a rich reward, or NOT!   This is a service our dealers provide with some fee for travel time.  Make this part of the deal from the beginning because of the distance.  RV

[Cosmic]

Many thanks, Richard, and very good to know!

[GdnrBob]

16 hours ago, TomicTime said:

No…by using a 2nd full range signal from the Preamp the filter in the REL will roll off high frequencies to the sub. Unfortunately it will NOT match the 6 db per octave slope  of the M5 high pass filter. We could probably argue for days about this….. but room nodes are likely to cause bigger frequency response anomaly  than  mismatched slopes… Room modes can be mostly corrected by the powerful ANALOG EQ in the sub 3 or Quattro….

 

good discussion.

Hmm, I am wondering if I can use this with my Hsu subs in my office system?

So, if I hooked up a pair of M5-HP's at the preamp, and ran the full signal to the subs, would I set the subs to cut off at 80 hertz?

{To be honest, I would have used my old 2wq's, but they wouldn't fit under the desks and stuff I have in my office, unfortunately.  Otherwise, this whole conversation would be moot}.

This is an interesting discussion. Perhaps we should make new thread on how to integrate non Vandy subs? From my interactions on Audiogon, I find many to be put off with the Vandersteen method of sub integration-mostly due to the cost involved (buying the subs as well as the external crossovers). Perhaps providing a way to allow them to use their existing subs while using the crossovers would be a less expensive way (albeit with compromises), to get close to the ideal set up.

Another 2 cents, whilst indulging in some Aberfeldy 12 year, and listening to Joseph Meyseder piano trios. Qobuz is amazing. I never heard of Meyseder in the 64 years on this planet.

Bob

[Richard Vandersteen]

14 minutes ago, GdnrBob said:

Hmm, I am wondering if I can use this with my Hsu subs in my office system?

So, if I hooked up a pair of M5-HP's at the preamp, and ran the full signal to the subs, would I set the subs to cut off at 80 hertz?

{To be honest, I would have used my old 2wq's, but they wouldn't fit under the desks and stuff I have in my office, unfortunately.  Otherwise, this whole conversation would be moot}.

This is an interesting discussion. Perhaps we should make new thread on how to integrate non Vandy subs? From my interactions on Audiogon, I find many to be put off with the Vandersteen method of sub integration-mostly due to the cost involved (buying the subs as well as the external crossovers). Perhaps providing a way to allow them to use their existing subs while using the crossovers would be a less expensive way (albeit with compromises), to get close to the ideal set up.

Another 2 cents, whilst indulging in some Aberfeldy 12 year, and listening to Joseph Meyseder piano trios. Qobuz is amazing. I never heard of Meyseder in the 64 years on this planet.

Bob

This can be done with any sub that has a level, phase and low-pass frequency adjustment except with the VLR, VLR CT and VSM-1 because they are already high-passed internally.  RV

[Holmz]

4 hours ago, GdnrBob said:

…
This is an interesting discussion. Perhaps we should make new thread on how to integrate non Vandy subs? From my interactions on Audiogon, I find many to be put off with the Vandersteen method of sub integration-mostly due to the cost involved (buying the subs as well as the external crossovers). Perhaps providing a way to allow them to use their existing subs while using the crossovers would be a less expensive way (albeit with compromises), to get close to the ideal set up.
…

The sub integration with the external XO is pretty clever.

I do not know if it is possible to run a highpass XO to some 3rd party sub, but that could be worthwhile.
The 1st HP would roll off the power out of the amps. And  if there was one between the speakers and subs, then it could restore the signal to be flat. 

However there is also the transcient response and group delay on other subs that could make it problematic.
So the subs seems like a good place for DSP EQ, and plate amps, but integration is going to be a challenge.

We have N subs, which are mostly sealed or ported, so the solution space is not small. Therefore; to get to plug-n-play seems somewhat hopeful (IMO).

Edited July 24, 2022 by Holmz

[GdnrBob]

On 7/23/2022 at 6:13 PM, Richard Vandersteen said:

This can be done with any sub that has a level, phase and low-pass frequency adjustment except with the VLR, VLR CT and VSM-1 because they are already high-passed internally.  RV

Nuts!😩

[nrenter]

On 7/23/2022 at 4:56 PM, GdnrBob said:

So, if I hooked up a pair of M5-HP's at the preamp, and ran the full signal to the subs, would I set the subs to cut off at 80 hertz?

IMHO, most people try to cross-over their (non-Vandersteen) subs WAY too high. My personal rule-of-thumb is around 70% of the -3 dB point of the speaker response.  I’d start around 42 Hz and tweak. Raise the level just so you can “hear” the subs, and then ease off a bit. 

[GdnrBob]

Wow, thanks @nrenter!

 

I just found my old HSU high pass filter. I believe it can be set at 80 or 100hz. Hsu says it is a 2nd order crossover (12db).

So, @Richard Vandersteen,  do you think this would work with the VLR's?

Bob