DC-93 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 I looked all over and can't find the answer. "They" are secretive about THX info! Does a THX Certified solid state amp have zero phase shift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GdnrBob Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 I got curious and Googled THX. It seems to be an unofficial group that promotes a certain standard of amps/receivers/speakers. To my jaded eyes/ears, it seems like another group hoping to hop on the 'new standard' bandwagon, like Dolby did/does, and MQA is attempting. Just my 2 cents... Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC-93 Posted November 2, 2022 Author Share Posted November 2, 2022 AudioKarma.com has a thread on the subject. One guy posted a link to info from about 20 years ago. I added "The Bottom Line" statement below. Here's an excerpt: The Certification ProcessAs romantic as it sounds, manufacturers do not simply submit a product to THX for testing and then get a yea or nay. A THX product starts with the manufacturer purchasing the expensive and confidential THX Design Manual for the product in question. THX products are designed to be THX products. The manufacturer knows what they have to do from square one. Once they have a working sample, it is sent to THX where it is tested, for a fee, and either checks out and a license granted, or it is sent back with a report on what needs to be addressed. THX tells us that they have yet to receive a product which got everything 100% right on the first try.Licensees then pay a small per-unit license fee for the manufactured product.I hope everyone can appreciate why, to this day, the particulars of THX’s criteria are not public. They are a business like any other and they need to protect their intellectual property. If everything was out in the open, people could just say, “It meets or beats the THX criteria”, and THX would get nothing. They’d fold, and we’d never get all the benefits they’ve brought this industry over the years. BOTTOM LINE: This is why the specs for THX equipment is not out there for the public! The only hope to figure things out are an A to B comparison of the same amp - THX and non THX. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GdnrBob Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 8 hours ago, DC-93 said: BOTTOM LINE: This is why the specs for THX equipment is not out there for the public! The only hope to figure things out are an A to B comparison of the same amp - THX and non THX. 8 hours ago, DC-93 said: If everything was out in the open, people could just say, “It meets or beats the THX criteria”, and THX would get nothing. They’d fold, and we’d never get all the benefits they’ve brought this industry over the years. My 2+ cents.... Well, this seems to confirm my suspicions. THX provides no proof that their criteria 'sounds better', or more accurate.- Just different, like Dolby and MQA. And, why any reputable manufacturer would sign on to design their equipment to that standard, is beyond me. Ah, the march of time.... Dolby started with, in my opinion, a really crappy noise reduction system. That they are still messing up movie soundtracks is beyond me. MQA is hoping to cash in on this, too. When any company claims their secret sauce is the reason to buy their products, make sure your wallet is in a secure place. Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursus13 Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 THX is a certification standard for movie theaters. (Not sure how that would translate to consumer electronics, other than marketing.) Dolby is a legit music and film industry tech company that also licenses their name and technologies for consumer products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmz Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 On 11/2/2022 at 2:44 AM, DC-93 said: I looked all over and can't find the answer. "They" are secretive about THX info! Does a THX Certified solid state amp have zero phase shift? What equipment does have phase shifts? (Preamps, amps, CD players, TTs, DSPs, Carts, Speakers) It is pretty difficult to have wide bandwidth and effect a phase shift… DSPs and Speakers can do phase shifts… intentionally or otherwise. But I think that the rest do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GdnrBob Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 3 hours ago, ursus13 said: Dolby is a legit music and film industry tech company that also licenses their name and technologies for consumer products. I beg to differ. I remember when Dolby got introduced in the 70's. Great noise reduction, blah blah. It only raised the noise floor as a way to compensate for it. At least in the digital age, we can take care of this ourselves. But, the fact that Dolby is still ensconced in the film industry is beyond me. Just Google Dolby and film composers and you'll see that many of them find Dolby to be the bane of their existence. B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursus13 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 Yeah, you’re right, Dolby and MQA are similarly questionable technologies wedging into the market. I consider most of this stuff as marketing gimmickry, like 3D. Unlike a format like IMAX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursus13 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 Sorry, DC-93, we went off the rails. Holmz has your back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmz Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 10 hours ago, ursus13 said: Sorry, DC-93, we went off the rails. Holmz has your back. It is usually me, so it is refreshing to see others going off the rails. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC-93 Posted November 22, 2022 Author Share Posted November 22, 2022 Threads wander, it's all good! I had an old McIntosh MC240 that had a phase shift spec in the manual stated as "0, +/- 6 degrees". It was an extremely sweet-sounding amp!! Ron Cornelius of McIntosh told me the phase shift was at the extreme ends of the bandwidth. It was under the low response of my speakers, and beyond audibility on the top end. No "THX" specs back in the 60s! Look at vintage audio reviews of amplifiers, both tube and solid state, to see which ones passed a square wave. (The ultimate test) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 The MC240 has some of the highest bandwidth and low phase shift output transformers they ever built…. no offense to anyone with a 275, etc….. I run my Treo CT / Sub3 with a 1961 family heirloom…but she has been heavily modified….. Enjoy the music Jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GdnrBob Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 @TomicTime, do you have a fire going with all that stuff nearby? (Though if your amps are like my Atma's, you don't need a fire to warm up😉). B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 no….. in fact….if i ever get to it…i have a project going to build an RPG style diffuser plug for the fireplace….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmz Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 1 hour ago, TomicTime said: no….. in fact….if i ever get to it…i have a project going to build an RPG style diffuser plug for the fireplace….. What is an RPG style plug? I am getting some Rockwool to make some plugs for a couple of fireplaces, mostly because I want to use the majority of the rockwool for diffusers elsewhere… and that it may be a bit easier to work with and more effective than the pink Owen’s Corning stuff. I can envision the flue like a Helmholz resonator and damping the throat of it may also such out some bass… I dunno… Mostly it is to provide a barrier for the ash that occasionally falls down and keep it off of the puppy’s new four poster bed.,, but I figured maybe it would help a bit sonically?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GdnrBob Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 1 hour ago, TomicTime said: no….. in fact….if i ever get to it…i have a project going to build an RPG style diffuser plug for the fireplace….. Aw, that is too bad, I really like a fireplace in a room, but can acknowledge the fact it would be a fire hazard for your amps/equipment. And, is that a stone on the M5 crossovers? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 RPG is an acoustical treatment company w excellent engineering chops. I have in mind a Quadratic like tgis tgat will serve two functions; diffuser and literally a plug for the fireplace… photo is an example…many Vandy dealers have very nice examples… Yes Bob - that is river stone painted by artist friend of mine…. in a mandala pattern… it holds down the filters so the rca pigtails stay connected…. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctsooner Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 Love their products. Always felt they just got it. Love that stone too. Noticed the VPI on one transformer. Why that one? 🙂. j/k... very cool and thanks for sharing Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 Pete - That is the power transformer and while probably overbuilt…might..benefit a micro amount from the brick….. It keeps em guessing anyway…. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctsooner Posted November 24, 2022 Share Posted November 24, 2022 love it Jim. I lost mine and loved with with Quicksilver Silver Mono's back in the day as well as on their full pre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GdnrBob Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 I find it interesting that equipment often benefits from having a dense, heavy object on it- with regards to sound reproduction. I can understand it when it comes to something like a loudspeaker or sub, but when even small objects like the M5 crossovers exhibit sonic clarity/benefits, I just have to shake my head. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmz Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, GdnrBob said: I find it interesting that equipment often benefits from having a dense, heavy object on it- with regards to sound reproduction. I can understand it when it comes to something like a loudspeaker or sub, but when even small objects like the M5 crossovers exhibit sonic clarity/benefits, I just have to shake my head. B One can quell the head shake with a rock on it 🤭 The Gods even used that back in Ancient Greece to keep Sisyphus’ background noise down. It probably would not have happened if he had served the thanksgiving dinner of turkey and stuffing… but, as they say, we learn as we go. Edited November 26, 2022 by Holmz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 (edited) Bob - HRS make great damping blocks…i use one on top of my server and another on the DAC…. as you might know @Brad O is also the rep for HRS…. Edited November 26, 2022 by TomicTime 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Edwards Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 On 11/22/2022 at 5:39 PM, TomicTime said: it holds down the filters so the rca pigtails stay connected… Practicality in its purest form ............. and not an expensive tweak. Well done Jim! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 sounding great also ! go Steve go !,,,, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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