Dual subs with 1c

[stratocaster]

If folks on this forum have 1Cs and have toyed with the idea of using dual 2wqs, then I would highly recommend it since I have moved things around in the house and have put my 24 year old 1Cs to compete with my 2CEs. Pairing them with the M5-HPs and dual subs, there’s something to be said about 8  8 inch subwoofers doing bass duty for you….For the small footprint that it has, the 1C is no slouch and with the added reinforcements of the subs it can definitely ahine…

Edited June 19, 2023 by stratocaster

[GdnrBob]

Nice system.

I agree, adding the subs really fleshes out things. Even my Treo's like the little bit of depth they add.

Bob

[ctsooner]

I never liked the integration of subs as few dealers know how to do it.  I do love the Vandy subs though for so many reasons that have already been discussed here.

[GdnrBob]

I use a pair of HSU subs with my VLR office system.

They are nice little subs, at a great price point, but compared to the Vandy subs, they don't hold a candle to them.

I have dialed them in as best I can, but on certain music (esp. current popular), they put out too much bass. As I listen to mostly classical, it doesn't matter, but when I compare it to my main system of Treo's and Sub 3's, it shows their deficiencies.

Bob

[stratocaster]

5 hours ago, GdnrBob said:

I use a pair of HSU subs with my VLR office system.

They are nice little subs, at a great price point, but compared to the Vandy subs, they don't hold a candle to them.

I have dialed them in as best I can, but on certain music (esp. current popular), they put out too much bass. As I listen to mostly classical, it doesn't matter, but when I compare it to my main system of Treo's and Sub 3's, it shows their deficiencies.

Bob

Are the VLR’s on a stand? Thinking of getting them for home theater front speaker duty..Thought they worked better on a shelf so am not sure if using them on a stand would help.

[ctsooner]

of course you can use the VLR's on a stand. It's probably how they sound their best, but maybe I'm off.  I've heard them in two shops and loved them.  Jon Spelt (Wauwatosa, WI) is intimate with this design as he LOVES them.  As for theater set up, Richard would probably know if they are the best way to go, or if he feels his home theater speakers are best.  The answers will be interesting.  

[GdnrBob]

WRT the VLR- Bass reinforcement is enhanced when placed in a bookshelf or corner. But, the little system Johnny has at Audioconnection had them on stands (in what I consider less than optimal placement), with a Sub 3, and a Belles Aria Integrated. For the money,  it sure sounded sweet to me, and probably outperformed systems costing twice the money. When a set of AQ William Tell cables were inserted, the Sub 3 couldn't be connected, but I truly felt like the sub was still connected. It was jaw dropping. 

@ctsooner will back me up.

Bob

[ctsooner]

Great stuff Bob and thanks.  I didn't know much about the VLR, other than it was a speaker Vandersteen made.  I finally heard the CT version at Jon Spelt's store in WI.  I was mesmerized by it and then I got to hear it again at Rutan's.  it just does so much right for that price and the sound really does match up with it's size.   I could easily see producers using it as a monitor as it sure seems accurate as heck.  

I showed the VLR to a couple of folks at the Apple Store yesterday.  They are into music and know that there is a high end, but didn't even know where to start.  I showed them. few sites and they all took my contact info.  

[GdnrBob]

As I have said before, I don't know why the little VLR is such a sleeper. Perhaps it is the small size. I don't know...

Bob

[ctsooner]

It's probably because it's not marketed at all. There are zero ads etc... Most in that price range will go for the 2's, which are also special and full range etc...  I honestly think you need buy in from the shop owners to show them and unit recently, only Jon Spelt has really pushed them I think.  (I may be wrong).

[Richard Vandersteen]

On 6/22/2023 at 1:01 PM, GdnrBob said:

As I have said before, I don't know why the little VLR is such a sleeper. Perhaps it is the small size. I don't know...

Bob

Bob. it is very important the VLR/VLR CT be discovered in an actual demo for the following reasons: 1) Marketing could cause many to have unrealistic expectations as they are designed for moderate levels in hostile locations for time and phase adjustments.  2)  The enthusiasm could imply better performance than a pair of TREO CT's which is impossible from a law of physics point of view.  3)  By adding subs and stands some would exceed their power handling capabilities and cause frustrations (bad impressions).  If a music lover needs a speaker in a small space and can't place a floor stander properly for Time and Phase (like a bookshelf) they hit the mark!  I remember a small speaker that was expensive and sounded quite good that was marketed very well but had many failures.  One of their dealers asked me to evaluate the design so he could take the manufacture to task because he had many unhappy customers!  After evaluating the design, I told him there was nothing wrong with the design except for the expectations implied by the enthusiasm (reviews) and price.  Most customers are not engineers and may not realize one has asked this mini speaker to do what a moderate floor stander does.  Marketing does not change the fact that water does run downhill by law!  RV

[ctsooner]

Interesting answer and I've heard you tell me that at an event once.  It's what my situation was when I went to get the ProAc D2's at Rutan's and ended up getting the Treo's instead.  All I was told by the Richard Geirber (distributor at the time) was that they were the greatest thing since sliced bread. They were fine, but I always had floor standing speakers and I just couldn't' give up 100hz down.  

[Richard Vandersteen]

On 6/21/2023 at 4:31 AM, ctsooner said:

of course you can use the VLR's on a stand. It's probably how they sound their best, but maybe I'm off.  I've heard them in two shops and loved them.  Jon Spelt (Wauwatosa, WI) is intimate with this design as he LOVES them.  As for theater set up, Richard would probably know if they are the best way to go, or if he feels his home theater speakers are best.  The answers will be interesting.  

The VLR/CT will not play as loud as many want HT to play.  If the HT is in a small room and played at a moderate volume with a VCC-2 center, (the center and sub do most of the work in HT) it would work very well.  Again, too many caveats for a universal recommendation.  RV

[stratocaster]

@Richard Vandersteen thanks for clarifying this. Although the current setup comprises of 1C, vcc, vsm and v2w, I will experiment with the vlr's and check if aesthetically and sonically it checks all boxes.

[Richard Vandersteen]

53 minutes ago, stratocaster said:

@Richard Vandersteen thanks for clarifying this. Although the current setup comprises of 1C, vcc, vsm and v2w, I will experiment with the vlr's and check if aesthetically and sonically it checks all boxes.

Your first upgrade would be to a VCC-2 Center, IMO.  RV

[ctsooner]

Great info as I’m not a HT guy like some of you are.  Ow I know how to answer folks who often ask questions like this. 

[Oregon]

On 6/19/2023 at 2:32 PM, GdnrBob said:

Nice system.

I agree, adding the subs really fleshes out things. Even my Treo's like the little bit of depth they add.

Bob

Indeed!

Thanks for sharing.

[GdnrBob]

5 hours ago, Oregon said:

Indeed!

Thanks for sharing.

As Mr. V says, it depends upon your listening needs/tastes.

Though he rightly states that the VLR doesn't play as loudly as some might want. I think that if you listen at 'normal' listening levels, you should be fine. I tried cranking my VLR's up, but stopped when it became too loud for my ears.-Though, I tend to not listen at Rock Concert levels-YMMV.

Besides Mr. V, I would recommend contacting John Rutan at Audioconnection, he has the best free information you can get. PM me if you need contact info.

B

[Holmz]

On 6/26/2023 at 10:16 PM, Richard Vandersteen said:

Your first upgrade would be to a VCC-2 Center, IMO.  RV

I went straight to a VCC5.
I did not try the VCC1 or VCC2, but it seems like it was a good (biased) choice.

Currently running VSMs for the LF/RF and the LR/RR and those seem like they are more akin to the 1 and VLR…  But the Center channel does most of the heavy lifting.

[Mr645]

Adding a sub to my 2Ce towers, and using the processor to crossover below 60hz from the 2Ce really opened up the soundstage and elevated their clarity and overall performance. For music the subwoofer addition was a noticeable overall sonic improvement and for movies/theater use, a truly next level experience

[ctsooner]

58 minutes ago, Mr645 said:

Adding a sub to my 2Ce towers, and using the processor to crossover below 60hz from the 2Ce really opened up the soundstage and elevated their clarity and overall performance. For music the subwoofer addition was a noticeable overall sonic improvement and for movies/theater use, a truly next level experience

Please share pics of the system.  Would love to see it with the sub.

[Mr645]

 

 

The only change was to replace the plate amp when it failed. The retailer had discotunied the item so sent me a refund. I am using a Crown DJ amp now. 

[GdnrBob]

@Mr645,

What processor are you using?

Bob

[Mr645]

On 7/20/2023 at 5:35 PM, GdnrBob said:

@Mr645,

What processor are you using?

Bob

I use the controls in a Pioneer LX-503 receiver that gives me controls over delay and levels at 31 & 62 hz. With placement I have a nice, fairly even bass level in the seating areas.  I used the supplied microphone to tune the subwoofer and afterwards cut the adjustments to around 1/2 of what the automated results did. 

[redwoodzz]

I have a vintage pair of 1B's and run dual subs with them. Like others have stated it really opened up the sound stage and added that extra bottom end that the 1B's can't reach. My system is also used for movies so I have Marantz AVR7005 pre/pro that allows me to dial in the subs with Audyssey. I run Audyssey in Bypass L/R which doesn't apply any correction to my front two speakers and I still get the benefit of the room correction on the subs where it really matters.