What is my vintage... no really, where are the details?

[mbrennan5]

I placed this post in the Evolution forum as I view this challenge from the viewpoint of a younger, hopefully lifetime customer.  I have thoroughy enoyed a pair of 2CE's for the past couple years, especially having gotten away from the challenge of adequately creating a smooth midmass response between bookshelves and a standalone subwoofer. 

As I plan my path forward as an audiophile I am confident that my family's fortunes will include higher end models in the future, However, I am reaIistic that things like hi-res streamers (and forever homes) will come before 5A's, so there's a good chance I will own these next used speakers for 10-20 years.
I am currently searching for something still affordable but slightly newer and an upgrade, either 2CE Sig's or 3A Sig's. 

My frustration comes from the lack of information regarding serial numbers and vintage. Even beside the idea that the models gained slight improvements each year, it'd be nice to know if the 2CE I own (SN# 80,0xx) is 1991/2001 and the 2CE Sig I see for sale (SN# 52,2xx) are 2001/2007.  With the information currently provided, one could be upgrading their speakers by 1 years or 16 years and not know the difference. 

The same applies to 3A Sig's. Is there really no chronology of SN's to infer if I'm purchasing a 20 year old speaker vs  1 year old?

[stratocaster]

Instead of focusing on the actual year it was produced, it might be more beneficial to ask yourself if you can hear any perceptible improvements in sound and whether you like what you are hearing. If getting a much recent model is the only criteria then it would help to be patient and check periodically with dealers who get trade ins. In a lot of instances the existing owners provide paperwork to confirm the age of the equipment.

Edited September 17, 2023 by stratocaster

[Richard Vandersteen]

29 minutes ago, mbrennan5 said:

I placed this post in the Evolution forum as I view this challenge from the viewpoint of a younger, hopefully lifetime customer.  I have thoroughy enoyed a pair of 2CE's for the past couple years, especially having gotten away from the challenge of adequately creating a smooth midmass response between bookshelves and a standalone subwoofer. 

As I plan my path forward as an audiophile I am confident that my family's fortunes will include higher end models in the future, However, I am reaIistic that things like hi-res streamers (and forever homes) will come before 5A's, so there's a good chance I will own these next used speakers for 10-20 years.
I am currently searching for something still affordable but slightly newer and an upgrade, either 2CE Sig's or 3A Sig's. 

My frustration comes from the lack of information regarding serial numbers and vintage. Even beside the idea that the models gained slight improvements each year, it'd be nice to know if the 2CE I own (SN# 80,0xx) is 1991/2001 and the 2CE Sig I see for sale (SN# 52,2xx) are 2001/2007.  With the information currently provided, one could be upgrading their speakers by 1 years or 16 years and not know the difference. 

The same applies to 3A Sig's. Is there really no chronology of SN's to infer if I'm purchasing a 20 year old speaker vs  1 year old?

mbrennan5, this is my bad as I always wanted to bring the best value as possible.  Early on I learned how much it would cost to field the constant calls about vintage and what was changed during the yearly upgrades to keep the product completive in the marketplace.  We are talking about hundreds of dollars which the Dutch are not likely to spend or justify if it did not add value to the product.  I never considered that such a strong used market would develop over the 45 plus years that has passed.  Today it would be impossible to create such an archive accurate enough for what some expect.  It was never necessary for service as the parts or product comes in for service and service immediately identifies the part and provides the service required based on what they see.  We do archive a lot of info on the KENTO and SEVEN for future reference.  To answer your question about chronology, there is not a record except for those that came in for upgrade because our customers are always provided an invoice describing the work accomplished.  We do not archive these once the invoice is paid it goes into the round file, but some customers may have kept their copy.  Sorry for the inconvenience but this and other decisions are part of why our products have been held as such values over the years.  RV

[Sbank]

@mbrennan5 Perhaps my recent adventure can provide you some assistance...Like many others I found myself deciding that pre-owned Vandersteens were the best fit for my situation. I pondered similar questions on models a bit further up the line...5A vs. Quatro, Quatro Wood & CT.

My suggestion is to call a few of the top dealers when you are ready to pull the trigger and put them to work on your behalf. Dealers have long-term clients and additional records on vintages of what they sell. They also have the inside pipeline on owners of the models you seek who may be ready to trade up. Your interest in buying their older speakers might even serve as the catalyst, e.g. dealer informs his customer "If you're ready, I have a buyer for your older model". 

As an example, my pal @TomicTimeand I called a number of top dealers and told them I have $X budget and am looking for a pair of Y or Z and ready to purchase as soon as available. Jon at Ultra Fidelis had a customer who recently traded up to Kentos from 5As. The 5As were my target and they hadn't yet been advertised. Jon was able to tell me that they sold the pair new, set them up and years later picked them up upon trade-in. A great pair, a complete history including narrowing of the speaker's age and full dealer support in set up. Those immeasurable benefits made this a better value for me vs. just comparing ads online. Hopefully that helps. 

[mbrennan5]

I appreciate the responses. So is there no chronology at all with the numbers? If we crowdsourced a thread of all the (for instance) 2CE Sig II owners, would each year have a different chonology, was it for the whole model over mutliple years, or was it completely random? Is there really no way at all of telling within the same model?

Edited September 17, 2023 by mbrennan5

[GdnrBob]

2 hours ago, mbrennan5 said:

So is there no chronology at all with the numbers?

I think the serial numbers are consecutive. It is the fact that Mr. V. never logged when these were sold, so your knowing 'exactly' when they were manufactured is not possible.

 

B

[ctsooner]

I’m with String. Who’s your local dealer?  Start there for shipping purposes and branch out from there. I’m sure at least one dealer can find what you want. I would never buy any used speaker from someone I didn’t know.  

[Richard Vandersteen]

On 9/17/2023 at 11:01 AM, mbrennan5 said:

I appreciate the responses. So is there no chronology at all with the numbers? If we crowdsourced a thread of all the (for instance) 2CE Sig II owners, would each year have a different chonology, was it for the whole model over mutliple years, or was it completely random? Is there really no way at all of telling within the same model?

mbrennan5, the serial numbers are not necessarily chronological, I recall an example when several times our vender jumped a bunch of numbers (can't remember which product but I am sure it has happened to most over the 46 years) which we used and filled in behind when we reordered rear plates.  To throw these away would be wasteful and I never thought it would be a problem.  I have always made sure that what the Vandersteen Dealer is demonstrating is what we are delivering as we have a demo program to assure our customers of this.  I want to reiterate that this is only one reason of many to make sure you listen to any used product before parting with any money.  RV

[DC-93]

Simple: Find a pair with the original boxes. They will have the shipping dates on them from the Vandersteen Factory.

My 2CeSignature II speakers were shipped in August of 2010. 

 

 

 

[ctsooner]

2 hours ago, DC-93 said:

Simple: Find a pair with the original boxes. They will have the shipping dates on them from the Vandersteen Factory.

My 2CeSignature II speakers were shipped in August of 2010. 

 

 

 

Smart.  I still would only buy used from a Vandy dealer who’s informed. I’ve just been burned too many times buying used. 

[GdnrBob]

6 hours ago, ctsooner said:

I’ve just been burned too many times buying used.

I have had the opposite experience. The 3a sigs that I sold to @dsisssup came from Johnny at Audioconnection, and my Treo's came from you @ctsooner.

☺️

Bob

[DC-93]

On 9/22/2023 at 10:43 AM, ctsooner said:

Smart.  I still would only buy used from a Vandy dealer who’s informed. I’ve just been burned too many times buying used. 

 I bought mine from a dealer on Ebay a few years ago for 1K shipped.  Had a return policy of course.  

I had a few questions before I bought them, and they were answered, no problem.  

These are keepers!

[ctsooner]

On 9/22/2023 at 5:24 PM, GdnrBob said:

I have had the opposite experience. The 3a sigs that I sold to @dsisssup came from Johnny at Audioconnection, and my Treo's came from you @ctsooner.

☺️

Bob

Two semi trusted sources lol. Most probably have great experiences. I’m not one of them.   That’s why I buy from dealers, even with used gear now. 5th just me though.