Bi Wire

[Oregon]

How does the Vandersteen community connect their loudspeakers? I have new amps which have banana provisions. On my old amp I made custom OFC connectors to connect two full runs of loudspeaker cables with the .330 diameter hole in the back of the VTL ST-80 power amp. The VTL connector looks like it might have been found on the B-17.

[Richard Vandersteen]

Oregon, the owner's manual has strong recommendations if you would like to know what was used during design and use by me.  We do show how to bi-amp but I do not recommend it over a better sounding amplifier bi-wired.  After 46 years is still stand by them!  RV

[Tomstruck]

Audioquest Rocket 88 double biwired between  Aesthetix Atlas & Quatros

[Richard Vandersteen]

16 hours ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

Oregon, the owner's manual has strong recommendations if you would like to know what was used during design and use by me.  We do show how to bi-amp but I do not recommend it over a better sounding amplifier bi-wired.  After 46 years is still stand by them!  RV

Should say, I still stand by them!  RV

[stratocaster]

True biwire Schmitt Custom Audio cables with bananas at the amp and spades at the speakers end..

[Oregon]

1 hour ago, stratocaster said:

True biwire Schmitt Custom Audio cables with bananas at the amp and spades at the speakers end..

Would you think the solution your link shows is how most people approach the barrier strip?

Also, here are photos of my home-made loudspeaker cables plus a photo of the WWII-era looking connectors on the back of the VTL amp.   

Thanks.

[GdnrBob]

Gee, with terminals like that, I bet you could just use bare wire. It might be an improvement, as it would provide lots of contact points.

B

[stratocaster]

@Oregon that’s exactly how the connection is in my system. Am assuming that there are independent runs of wires within that casing that you shared.

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by stratocaster

[stratocaster]

That is 4 wires at the spade end that are being combined to 2 wires at the amp end.

[Oregon]

Well, after more snooping about, that which I seek is not available. OK, I'll make my own.  Each connector will comprise an OFC body about 1/4" dia. One end will incorporate an appropriately sized hole to accept the banana, the opposite end will have two holes to accept the spade connector and adjoining cable connector. All will be silver soldered (Cardas). The spades will be mated with silver cabling/insulators. Make it pretty.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Oregon

[Holmz]

Has anyone else tried this stuff?
(I am a bit drawn to the low dielectric constant of the insulation.)
https://jupitercondenser.com/collections/audio-wire/products/copy-of-stranded-tinned-copper-wire-lacquered-cotton-insulation

[John Gallup]

Audioquest Firebird Zero and Thunderbird Bass bi-wire between what I think are Cardas clamp-down connectors on the M5-HPA amps and the barrier terminal strips on the Quatros. All spade terminals. I bought the cables used from Stereo Unlimited in San Diego. If I had it to do over again I'd get the cables made with the DBS (diaelectric bias system) cable at the amplifier end so it could just plug into the jacks on the amps, obviating the need for the battery packs to "energize" the cable shield.

[GdnrBob]

Do Vandersteen amps have an input for the DBS wire? If so, then that is news to me.

I am guessing that your cables have the DBS wire at the speaker, otherwise couldn't you just remove the packs and plug in directly? 

B

[John Gallup]

3 hours ago, GdnrBob said:

Do Vandersteen amps have an input for the DBS wire?

Here's a pic of mine. I was able to do this with the amp power cords, but needed to make a little jumper for the DBS cable to be long enough. From the manual:

Quote

DBS JACKS
The M5-HPA has two unidentified DBS jacks to the left of the RJ-11 phone jack. If you chose AudioQuest speaker wires or interconnects, these can be used in place of the battery packs. You would order the AudioQuest speaker wire or interconnect with the pigtails for the battery pack at the amplifier end. This will provide the voltage required as long as the amplifier is on standby or operating and eliminates the need for the battery pack and inherently replacing the batteries

[Richard Vandersteen]

6 hours ago, GdnrBob said:

Do Vandersteen amps have an input for the DBS wire? If so, then that is news to me.

I am guessing that your cables have the DBS wire at the speaker, otherwise couldn't you just remove the packs and plug in directly? 

B

Early M5-HPA amplifiers did not have DBS and could use any speaker wire under 5 feet or so.  Later, M5-HPA amplifiers came with 30-inch-long HPA Interface Cables like the M7-HPA does, which is mandatory.  The M5-HPA amps that require these dedicated output modules are noted with "Max Speaker Wire Length 4 Feet" on the back of the amp below the speaker output terminals.  RV

[Oregon]

OK, I think I finally "get it". You guys are running the little "jumpers" from one lead to the adjoining lead? So, you guys are not runnin two separate runs of speaker cables. This jumper deal is considered the end all? 

This "bi-wire" episode  has been an experience in learning vernacular and adjusting expectations.

Thank you.

[GdnrBob]

 

17 hours ago, Oregon said:

So, you guys are not runnin two separate runs of speaker cables. This jumper deal is considered the end all? 

Nope, there are actually two runs. At the amp ends the two pairs are joined to become one pair. At the speaker end, the cables are then wired for 2 pair of speaker terminals.

 

On 10/19/2023 at 11:29 AM, Richard Vandersteen said:

Early M5-HPA amplifiers did not have DBS and could use any speaker wire under 5 feet or so. 

Are the HPA Interface Cables the only speaker cables that can be used with the amp?

Bob

[Richard Vandersteen]

7 minutes ago, GdnrBob said:

 

Nope, there are actually two runs. At the amp ends the two pairs are joined to become one pair. At the speaker end, the cables are then wired for 2 pair of speaker terminals.

 

Are the HPA Interface Cables the only speaker cables that can be used with the amp?

Bob

Bob, yes, the HPA Interface Cable is the only wire that can be safely used with the M7-HPA and the M5-HPA and is now included in the price.  Any other Interface would need to be sent to the factory and tested for safe use.  Neither amp has ANY compensation circuitry to protect it from oscillation which would blow up the amplifier and speaker.  All amplifier circuits want to oscillate into certain loads, so designers use stop resistors, compensation capacitors, emitter resistors and even output inductors to slow down the circuit enough to prevent this.  Unfortunately, these protection schemes hurt the sound and affect transparency.  We have no need for all this extra circuitry because the load is carefully defined, hence amazing sonic synergy with our speakers.  RV

[stratocaster]

18 hours ago, Oregon said:

OK, I think I finally "get it". You guys are running the little "jumpers" from one lead to the adjoining lead? So, you guys are not runnin two separate runs of speaker cables. This jumper deal is considered the end all? 

This "bi-wire" episode  has been an experience in learning vernacular and adjusting expectations.

Thank you.

@Oregon jumpers are only in the worst case scenario if you are too attached to a 'non biwire' cable and don't want to consider anything else. Most folks are running true biwire cables (which are two sets of speaker wires in one casing) or as Bob mentioned two independent runs of speaker wire. The picture of the wire that you shared looks like a biwire because it has 4 spade connectors at the speakers end. However, what we can't tell from the picture is whether it's truly two separate runs of speaker wire internally or if it's just a single run of speaker wire that has been split in two at the speaker's end to create for spade connectors.

[Oregon]

22 minutes ago, stratocaster said:

 

Bi-wiring  has become an issue since bringing loudspeaker cables with  banana connectors in the house, it didn't use to be difficult, I'd make my own.

Are true bi-wire cables actually available to the audio community? If so, what brands are you guys running?

Thanks.

:^)

[stratocaster]

True biwire are available with almost all vendors. I use Schmitt Custom Audio cables since I like the customer service and attention to detail that the owner provides. When I started ordering cables he used to have Vandersteen’s and sonically I found the cables to be extremely neutral. Not sure if he used the speakers for his testing. Cost wise they are extremely forgiving in comparison to other vendors.

[Richard Vandersteen]

13 minutes ago, Oregon said:

Bi-wiring  has become an issue since bringing loudspeaker cables with  banana connectors in the house, it didn't use to be difficult, I'd make my own.

Are true bi-wire cables actually available to the audio community? If so, what brands are you guys running?

Thanks.

:^)

Audioquest, in fact they make a special wire for "BASS" and one called "ZERO" for the Mid/Treble section of our speakers.  I now know more of what Edison went through when people could not figure out how to light the wick of the light bulb, LOL.  Progress is difficult!  RV

[Oregon]

16 minutes ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

Audioquest, in fact they make a special wire for "BASS" and one called "ZERO" for the Mid/Treble section of our speakers...

Thank you!

[Oregon]

Talked to AudioQuest, the cost of a 3' run of Bass/Zero loudspeaker cables is about equal to the cost of my 2's.

[Oregon]

Soldering banana connectors to the amplifier ends of my existing cables might be the solution to this "conundrum".