Dedicated speaker cables for M5-HPA amps and Quatro speakers

[John Gallup]

In a thread about bi-wiring speaker cables, RV said the following:

Quote

...yes, the HPA Interface Cable is the only wire that can be safely used with the M7-HPA and the M5-HPA and is now included in the price.  Any other Interface would need to be sent to the factory and tested for safe use.  Neither amp has ANY compensation circuitry to protect it from oscillation which would blow up the amplifier and speaker. 

My Quatros are bi-wired to the M5-HPAs with five feet of Audioquest Firebird Zero and Thunderbird Bass, and they must have read Richard's post, because they now make a scary noise that could well be described as "oscillation" when played at higher than usual volume. (I've been cranking the volume up test for the background noise discussed in this thread about undesirable background noise.) The amps do have the DBS jacks and they're used for the interconnects, but not the speakers, as the cables have the DBS battery packs at the speaker end rather than the amp end. 

So I'm wondering whether I need shorter or different speaker cables.

[TomicTime]

you absolutely should call @Richard Vandersteen

[JonM]

That is worth a call to RV. But I took his postings (I had to read them very closely) to mean you need the Vandy-specific cable IF your M5s are marked “max speaker cable length 4 feet” which is the current and latest design. My amps are not marked that way.   I have 3 foot Robin Hood silver biwires on mine. 
 

The latest Audioquest interconnects I bought, Pegasus, had the DBS connections at the amp end by default and I didn’t have to spec them that way. I plugged them into the M5s. 

[Richard Vandersteen]

On 11/3/2023 at 6:54 AM, JonM said:

That is worth a call to RV. But I took his postings (I had to read them very closely) to mean you need the Vandy-specific cable IF your M5s are marked “max speaker cable length 4 feet” which is the current and latest design. My amps are not marked that way.   I have 3 foot Robin Hood silver biwires on mine. 
 

The latest Audioquest interconnects I bought, Pegasus, had the DBS connections at the amp end by default and I didn’t have to spec them that way. I plugged them into the M5s. 

JonM, you should try using the DBS pack on the Pegasus and plug the DBS from the speaker wire into the M5's DBS jacks.  Garth has gone to an RF trap on the new interconnect cables which work best when they are totally isolated supplies for better performance.  This new development is why the new L5-ACC preamp does not have DBS jacks as it required too many dedicated supplies which are completely isolated.  Most practical way to do that would be to use the battery packs on all interconnects.  Try switching them around and listen for which is best, I would like to know.  RV

[Richard Vandersteen]

On 11/2/2023 at 1:33 PM, John Gallup said:

In a thread about bi-wiring speaker cables, RV said the following:

My Quatros are bi-wired to the M5-HPAs with five feet of Audioquest Firebird Zero and Thunderbird Bass, and they must have read Richard's post, because they now make a scary noise that could well be described as "oscillation" when played at higher than usual volume. (I've been cranking the volume up test for the background noise discussed in this thread about undesirable background noise.) The amps do have the DBS jacks and they're used for the interconnects, but not the speakers, as the cables have the DBS battery packs at the speaker end rather than the amp end. 

So I'm wondering whether I need shorter or different speaker cables.

John, the early version of the M5-HPA amplifiers were not as sensitive to oscillations and the latest but it is always a good idea to use shorter speaker cables.  If you can get by with 2 1/2 feet you could sell the second set to someone with early M5-HPAs as the new ones, come with the HPA interface Cable as does the M7-HPA.  RV

[John Gallup]

1 hour ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

If you can get by with 2 1/2 feet you could sell the second set to someone with early M5-HPAs as the new ones, come with the HPA interface Cable as does the M7-HPA.  RV

Richard,

Thanks for the response. 2-1/2 feet would work fine for me. The speakers and amps were purchased in 2000. Would your dedicated cables work with them, and if so do you sell them, directly or through a dealer? 

 

[Holmz]

6 hours ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

John, the early version of the M5-HPA amplifiers were not as sensitive to oscillations and the latest but it is always a good idea to use shorter speaker cables.  If you can get by with 2 1/2 feet you could sell the second set to someone with early M5-HPAs as the new ones, come with the HPA interface Cable as does the M7-HPA.  RV

What is the slew rate of the units?

[Richard Vandersteen]

6 hours ago, John Gallup said:

Richard,

Thanks for the response. 2-1/2 feet would work fine for me. The speakers and amps were purchased in 2000. Would your dedicated cables work with them, and if so do you sell them, directly or through a dealer? 

 

John, we do not sell direct but you should talk to your dealer for a solution.  RV

[BFW]

On 11/3/2023 at 9:54 AM, JonM said:

That is worth a call to RV. But I took his postings (I had to read them very closely) to mean you need the Vandy-specific cable IF your M5s are marked “max speaker cable length 4 feet” which is the current and latest design. My amps are not marked that way.   I have 3 foot Robin Hood silver biwires on mine. 
 

The latest Audioquest interconnects I bought, Pegasus, had the DBS connections at the amp end by default and I didn’t have to spec them that way. I plugged them into the M5s. 

@JonM which spades do you have on each end of your AQ Robin Hood biwire cables?  I have the same amps and speakers and I am switching to 30 inch AQ Robin Hood biwire cables.  My dealer suggested U-spade on the amp end and multi spade on the speaker end.  Is that how your cables are configured?  Thanks

[TomicTime]

I like Ring on the speakers, especially w Vandersteen terminal strips…

 

[JonM]

5 hours ago, BFW said:

@JonM which spades do you have on each end of your AQ Robin Hood biwire cables?  I have the same amps and speakers and I am switching to 30 inch AQ Robin Hood biwire cables.  My dealer suggested U-spade on the amp end and multi spade on the speaker end.  Is that how your cables are configured?  Thanks

I will get you pics but I think that is exactly what I have on mine. The dealer may have spec’d that config, assuming it’s not the default from Audioquest. It would be the one thing that dealer did right during the whole transaction, so that would be suspect. 
 

I did try to order ring terminals on the speaker end from Audioquest and they could not accommodate me. I think Richard makes his cables from Audioquest wire but he picks his own terminal ends and they aren’t necessarily Audioquest parts. 

[Richard Vandersteen]

2 hours ago, JonM said:

I will get you pics but I think that is exactly what I have on mine. The dealer may have spec’d that config, assuming it’s not the default from Audioquest. It would be the one thing that dealer did right during the whole transaction, so that would be suspect. 
 

I did try to order ring terminals on the speaker end from Audioquest and they could not accommodate me. I think Richard makes his cables from Audioquest wire but he picks his own terminal ends and they aren’t necessarily Audioquest parts. 

Yes, I use my own ring lugs but the AudioQuest spades for Vandersteen sound very good.  AudioQuest does not have ring lugs as an option.  RV

[JonM]

8 hours ago, BFW said:

@JonM which spades do you have on each end of your AQ Robin Hood biwire cables?  I have the same amps and speakers and I am switching to 30 inch AQ Robin Hood biwire cables.  My dealer suggested U-spade on the amp end and multi spade on the speaker end.  Is that how your cables are configured?  Thanks

Mine are multi spade on both the amp and speaker sides. 
 

 

[BFW]

@JonM and @Richard Vandersteen Very helpful, thank you

 

One additional question, I believe the binding posts on the M5-HPA amps are Cardas.  Regardless, I will be connecting two sets of AQ speaker wire to the amps, one for the Quatros and one for the Sub Threes.  Any thoughts on if there could be clearance or clamping force issues with stacking the AQ spades?

Brian

[JonM]

48 minutes ago, BFW said:

@JonM and @Richard Vandersteen Very helpful, thank you

 

One additional question, I believe the binding posts on the M5-HPA amps are Cardas.  Regardless, I will be connecting two sets of AQ speaker wire to the amps, one for the Quatros and one for the Sub Threes.  Any thoughts on if there could be clearance or clamping force issues with stacking the AQ spades?

Brian

I think that will work fine. You might have to remove or get creative with the plastic backshells but the Cardas post won’t be the limiter. 

[Richard Vandersteen]

2 hours ago, JonM said:

I think that will work fine. You might have to remove or get creative with the plastic backshells but the Cardas post won’t be the limiter. 

The plastic covers on the AudioQuest will touch but that is not a problem.  RV

[BFW]

Thanks again gentlemen!

[GdnrBob]

On 11/15/2023 at 8:33 AM, BFW said:

 Any thoughts on if there could be clearance or clamping force issues with stacking the AQ spades?

I stack AQ spades on my amps. It takes a bit of finagling on the Ayre posts, but no problems.

Bob

[BFW]

Thanks Bob, good to hear.  I like finagling!

[DividedSky]

On 11/2/2023 at 4:33 PM, John Gallup said:

In a thread about bi-wiring speaker cables, RV said the following:

My Quatros are bi-wired to the M5-HPAs with five feet of Audioquest Firebird Zero and Thunderbird Bass, and they must have read Richard's post, because they now make a scary noise that could well be described as "oscillation" when played at higher than usual volume. (I've been cranking the volume up test for the background noise discussed in this thread about undesirable background noise.) The amps do have the DBS jacks and they're used for the interconnects, but not the speakers, as the cables have the DBS battery packs at the speaker end rather than the amp end. 

So I'm wondering whether I need shorter or different speaker cables.

John - Richard mentioned that you could try to find a person with older M5-HPAs that could  also use 2.5 foot cables and split your 5 foot pairs into two 2.5 foot pairs (of firebird zero and tbird bass).  I may be interested in doing that with you.  I am looking to upgrade from William Tell biwire (no oscillation issues for me with 4 foot by the way).  Let me know. 
 

Frank

[DividedSky]

On 11/9/2023 at 10:36 AM, Richard Vandersteen said:

John, the early version of the M5-HPA amplifiers were not as sensitive to oscillations and the latest but it is always a good idea to use shorter speaker cables.  If you can get by with 2 1/2 feet you could sell the second set to someone with early M5-HPAs as the new ones, come with the HPA interface Cable as does the M7-HPA.  RV

Hey Richard!  I am happy to report that your suggestion here resulted in John and I striking a deal to split his Firebird Zero/Thunderbird bass biwire into two cable sets of 2 and 1/2 foot length.  The cables are headed to Audioquest very soon to make the change.  So great to have your participation in the community.  I am looking forward to the upgrade from my William Tell biwire and appreciate working with John and Audioquest to get a quote and get the ball rolling.  Thank you RV and John @John Gallup!

Frank

Edited February 8 by DividedSky

[John Gallup]

2 minutes ago, DividedSky said:

Hey Richard!  I am happy to report that your suggestion here resulted in John and I striking a deal to split his Firebird Zero/Thunderbird bass biwire into two cable set of 2 and 1/2 foot length.  The cables are headed to Audioquest very soon to make the change.  So great to have your participation in the community.  I am looking forward to the upgrade from my William Tell biwire and appreciate working with John and Audioquest to get a quote and get the ball rolling.  Thank you RV and John!

Frank

And my Romex temporary speaker cables sound great. Looped around the amp terminals and bi-wired with ring lugs to boot!

[DividedSky]

Lovely!  Is that what 2.5 feet of cable looks like?  Looks close 😆

[DividedSky]

You are a man of action John!  Barely got the quote 4 hours ago any you're already up an running with your Romex.

[John Gallup]

Just now, DividedSky said:

You are a man of action John!  Barely got the quote 4 hours ago any you're already up an running with your Romex.

 

2 minutes ago, DividedSky said:

Lovely!  Is that what 2.5 feet of cable looks like?  Looks close 😆

AQ cables should hit Irvine Saturday.

An advantage of keeping scraps of everything lying around is that I can do wacky hookups like this at zero cost. Those cables are about four feet long, looped around the amp terminals, so effectively two feet. That said, I seem to buy expensive cables and hide them under cheap Ikea bookcases.