Another best-ever listening experience

[jeffreybehr]

Happens every halfyear or so...when the moon, planets, and stars align, the electricity is purer, it's very quiet in the house, I'm ready to sit and do nothing but listen and love the music, etc.. The music this time was Gustav Hosts's The Planets, Suite for Large Orchestra, one of my maybe-top-10 pieces; the multichannel* recording is by CHANDOS with Richard Hickox conducting the BBC PO, on an SACD.

 

My system is listed below and is mostly unchanged for months.. However, recently one channel of my Aesthetix Atlas Eclipse monoamps died--it won't turn on--so I removed them and installed the Moon 400Ms, which are absolutely stock but for one set of CARDAS bindingposts.. Because the Aesthetix amps have the 1st-order hi-pass filters required by the Vandersteens, I don't have external filters used to drive other amps; I'm using the hi-pass filter of the prepro (probably 2nd-order), so the bass response is all afoul, but the system still has plenty of bottom-octave energy...probably too much.. This weekend I moved the V-steen 7.2s farther apart about 8 inches each, which broadened the stage considerably without decreasing center density.

 

What did I hear tonite?  First, instruments that I had NEVER heard in any Planets recording, especially relatively quiet percussion stuff.. More individual instuments in the orchestra, all sounding as real as I've ever heard.. More dynamic range, especially at the bottom of the range...ppppp, anyone?  A gorgeous-sounding and VERY-well-conducted orchestra playing beautiful music!

 

Still unresolved in my system is occasional courseness/hardness in the violins, which  I attribute, perhaps incorrectly, to CHANDOS's use of PCM (24/96) for their original recordings (and probably mixing, too).. I do NOT hear such degree of hardness in the multichannel recordings by Channel Classics, PentaTone, some BIS, or OEHMS, all of which are recorded in DSD.. Or it could be from my 80-year-old ears and my use of hearingaids.

 

FWIW, I had a different pair of hi-end speakers (which will remain unnamed) in the system for a few days.  Sure am glad to have the V-steen 7.2s back. 🙂 

 

Happy listening!

 

* I listen to 5- or 5.1-channel recordings with only 4 channels, that is, with the center and '.1' channels disabled; sounds more natural to me. 

 

 

System.  Oppo UDP-205 driving a newish Marantz AV10 pre/pro via HDMI;  main poweramps are temporarilyMoon/Simaudio 400Ms driving Vandersteen Seven Mk.IIs which wear ISOAcoustic Gaia-1 feet on their fronts; subwoofers turned off; Emotiva XPA Gen. 3 Eleven|1.5S driving  the V'steen VCC-5 centerchannel, a pair of HHR Walsh-type surround speakers, and 3 pairs of ELAC B-6 rear-surround and ceiling speakers.. Main Power and interconnest are AudioQuest Dragons; custom speakercable featuring Mundorf silver/gold conductors.  PS Audio P20 power regenerator.  ISOAcoustic Orea footers under DPs, Marantz AV10, and some poweramps.  

[ctsooner]

I can’t figure out if you are using the proper crossover or not. I may have mis read it. Thanks for sharing. 

[GdnrBob]

Not to be a b*tch, but

The only thing I would question is the IsoAcoustic footers under the speakers. 

I am using Townshend under much of my equipment- which are similar to IsoAcoustics. I tried them under my Sub 3's, but found they screwed up the bass. (I need John Rutan to come and reset things).

So, I ask if you have tried not using the IsoAcoustic footers under the speakers? Mr. V. feels,  (at least I think) that the speakers should be locked into the room with a heavy base (like Granite).

Mind you, I don't want to be confrontational, but only wish to know if you tried listening to them before adding the footers.

Bob

[Richard Vandersteen]

Not a good season to be a Scrooge so a merry reminder, we find the best advice, best specifications, learn how the product was designed by the designer, blog for even more opinions and then do what we like anyway!  It is a great hobby as there are so many combinations, we can be content with the fact we never are.  RV 

[TomicTime]

I remember a wise man with no camel in sight saying something about “ a cat chasing it’s own tail “…..

i certainly have been that Kat

enjoy the music

[Holmz]

On 12/16/2023 at 7:34 AM, Richard Vandersteen said:

Not a good season to be a Scrooge so a merry reminder, we find the best advice, best specifications, learn how the product was designed by the designer, blog for even more opinions and then do what we like anyway!  It is a great hobby as there are so many combinations, we can be content with the fact we never are.  RV 

I was a bit of a scrooge last week, after a few months of solid work… but I just drove to the west and arrived today.
Not sure what happened to the 5 channel, and took me about 10  minutes get to it all going.
Now the pup is next to me and I am finishing up audiobook number 2, which is going through the TV, and into the Lyngdorf and coming out the VCC and the 4 VSMs.

It may not be the best sound ever, but it ‘shou does’ beat the car 🙄

~Grinch

[jeffreybehr]

On 12/15/2023 at 9:07 AM, ctsooner said:

I can’t figure out if you are using the proper crossover or not. I may have mis read it. Thanks for sharing. 

No, I've never had any inline filters for these 7.2s; I bought them with the HPA amps.. So instead, I'm using the hi-pass filter in the Marantz pre/pro, which I think is 2nd-order, which, of course, is the wrong slope.  

[jeffreybehr]

On 12/15/2023 at 4:08 PM, GdnrBob said:

Not to be a b*tch, but

The only thing I would question is the IsoAcoustic footers under the speakers. 

I am using Townshend under much of my equipment- which are similar to IsoAcoustics. I tried them under my Sub 3's, but found they screwed up the bass. (I need John Rutan to come and reset things).

So, I ask if you have tried not using the IsoAcoustic footers under the speakers? Mr. V. feels,  (at least I think) that the speakers should be locked into the room with a heavy base (like Granite).

Mind you, I don't want to be confrontational, but only wish to know if you tried listening to them before adding the footers.

Bob

NO problem, Bob.

I installed the 7.2s with their HUGE original spikes, but since I'm an Isolatist *and not a Couplist*, I started adding the Gaia feet to the boxes.. With the 9/16" spike threads and already having the spikebars, installing the front pair wasn't too time consuming, but the parts to install the rears are still lying about.. I'm almost 80, a bit overweight, have a weight-restricted REreplaced right-shoulder joint, and my BFfLfellowaudiofool is getting weaker and less able to help me do this kind of hi-weight work..  I'm also plagued with laziness about physical work..  Also, IF I'm a Golden-Eared Audiofile at all, I'm a 'slow-hearing' GEA, so I'd have to work hard to A/B such changes.. Did I mention that I'm lazy?

One thing I know--the 7.2s are the best-sounding speakers I've ever had, being unmatched in overall resolution, bandwidth, and especially coherence...all-togetherness.. I just wish they presented a taller, larger image of the orchestra.    

* I recall e-mailing a couple decades ago with Steve Herbelin(sp?) of Herbies Audio Lab about spiking speakers to the concrete (to reduce or elimate the speakers' vibrations) or isolating them from the 'nonvibrating' concrete slab; Steve replied, essentially, that I only thought  my concrete floor didn't vibrate.. After thinking about it, he was right--my concrete-slab floor does indeed vibrate.. So now I isolate and not couple.

[Richard Vandersteen]

3 hours ago, jeffreybehr said:

NO problem, Bob.

I installed the 7.2s with their HUGE original spikes, but since I'm an Isolatist *and not a Couplist*, I started adding the Gaia feet to the boxes.. With the 9/16" spike threads and already having the spikebars, installing the front pair wasn't too time consuming, but the parts to install the rears are still lying about.. I'm almost 80, a bit overweight, have a weight-restricted REreplaced right-shoulder joint, and my BFfLfellowaudiofool is getting weaker and less able to help me do this kind of hi-weight work..  I'm also plagued with laziness about physical work..  Also, IF I'm a Golden-Eared Audiofile at all, I'm a 'slow-hearing' GEA, so I'd have to work hard to A/B such changes.. Did I mention that I'm lazy?

One thing I know--the 7.2s are the best-sounding speakers I've ever had, being unmatched in overall resolution, bandwidth, and especially coherence...all-togetherness.. I just wish they presented a taller, larger image of the orchestra.    

* I recall e-mailing a couple decades ago with Steve Herbelin(sp?) of Herbies Audio Lab about spiking speakers to the concrete (to reduce or elimate the speakers' vibrations) or isolating them from the 'nonvibrating' concrete slab; Steve replied, essentially, that I only thought  my concrete floor didn't vibrate.. After thinking about it, he was right--my concrete-slab floor does indeed vibrate.. So now I isolate and not couple.

You should ask him what he was smoking if he thinks the concrete slab moves more than the Model SEVEN does on soft feet while being impacted with the kinetic energy from the sub-woofers moving mass and the acoustic energy at normal listening levels.  This does not square with my tests except maybe near a railroad, subway or freeway none of which I was able to test here in Hanford.  Floors that are wood spans will act as a tympanic membrane and some type of isolation may be the best compromise if tuned low enough in frequency, but I have not tested anything but using speakers on a slab.    Adding the granite BEDROCK will improve stage width and height considerably and takes the Mk II halfway to the XTRM in this regard (added mass makes the structure harder to move in space), YMMV.  RV

[ctsooner]

All I know is that when I added a 3” granite plinth to my Quatros and got the Vanderfeet, it took my system. To a new level. I never expected that. 

[stratocaster]

1 hour ago, ctsooner said:

All I know is that when I added a 3” granite plinth to my Quatros and got the Vanderfeet, it took my system. To a new level. I never expected that. 

With that kind of elevation did you have  to tilt the speakers forward? 

[Richard Vandersteen]

20 hours ago, jeffreybehr said:

No, I've never had any inline filters for these 7.2s; I bought them with the HPA amps.. So instead, I'm using the hi-pass filter in the Marantz pre/pro, which I think is 2nd-order, which, of course, is the wrong slope.  

Twelve dB high-pass with the built-in 6 dB low-pass would require the sub-woofer to be out of phase for proper response at the crossover frequency.  RV

[Holmz]

On 12/20/2023 at 4:30 AM, jeffreybehr said:

… but since I'm an Isolatist *and not a Couplist*…

🙄

[jeffreybehr]

5 hours ago, Holmz said:

🙄

Don't like those terms, huh?!?!?!?!

[Holmz]

I was away for work for a while and therefore I was an isolatiist.
Now that I am back with the Mrs. I am a couplist.

[ctsooner]

On 12/20/2023 at 12:02 PM, stratocaster said:

With that kind of elevation did you have  to tilt the speakers forward? 

Yes.  I’m still a washer off, but hoping my son can come help me do that

[jeffreybehr]

On 12/19/2023 at 5:17 PM, Richard Vandersteen said:

You should ask him what he was smoking if he thinks the concrete slab moves more than the Model SEVEN does on soft feet while being impacted with the kinetic energy from the sub-woofers moving mass and the acoustic energy at normal listening levels.  This does not square with my tests except maybe near a railroad, subway or freeway none of which I was able to test here in Hanford.  Floors that are wood spans will act as a tympanic membrane and some type of isolation may be the best compromise if tuned low enough in frequency, but I have not tested anything but using speakers on a slab.    Adding the granite BEDROCK will improve stage width and height considerably and takes the Mk II halfway to the XTRM in this regard (added mass makes the structure harder to move in space), YMMV.  RV

OK Richard, U convinced me to install the big spikes.. Checked and adjusted all the alignment and distances, and the system still works!  Seriously, the system sounds fabulous, and I THINK it's a little better resolved; time will tell.

[Richard Vandersteen]

2 minutes ago, jeffreybehr said:

OK Richard, U convinced me to install the big spikes.. Checked and adjusted all the alignment and distances, and the system still works!  Seriously, the system sounds fabulous, and I THINK it's a little better resolved; time will tell.

jeffreybehr, they are your speakers and its OK with me if you hang them from the ceiling, I comment only so our enthusiastic music lovers understand the design principals used.  Ultimately you are the BOSS whatever it takes to be happy.  RV

[GdnrBob]

6 hours ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

they are your speakers and its OK with me if you hang them from the ceiling

I agree.

 

Bob

Edited December 23, 2023 by GdnrBob

[ctsooner]

Sometimes it’s just that incremental hangs that means the world of enjoyment