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Vanndersteen Audio Records!


darthlaker
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Hello Guys, we only made the two for R&D purposes because without knowing what a recording is supposed to sound like it was difficult to critique our design developments.  This resulted in two master tapes of recordings where I was present every day!  They both were recorded in a church from midnight to five am to minimize traffic noise.  I also learned this was not an easy way to make a living as leading this many musicians was like herding cats.  These experiences challenged me to find a neutral material for driver cones (without noise), one driver per frequency range (above approximately 200Hz), first order filters and silent cabinets verified by listening to master tapes that I am very familiar with.

RV

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2 minutes ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

Hello Guys, we only made the two for R&D purposes because without knowing what a recording is supposed to sound like it was difficult to critique our design developments.  This resulted in two master tapes of recordings where I was present every day!  They both were recorded in a church from midnight to five am to minimize traffic noise.  I also learned this was not an easy way to make a living as leading this many musicians was like herding cats.  These experiences challenged me to find a neutral material for driver cones (without noise), one driver per frequency range (above approximately 200Hz), first order filters and silent cabinets verified by listening to master tapes that I am very familiar with.

RV

Thanks Richard for chiming in here! 

It's great that you were present at the live recordings so you had a reference to work with for speaker development!

Just out of interest - how much sound information would you say is "lost" from a live recording to the master tape and then also how much sound information is further lost from the vinyl cut being played on a Vandersteen system?

 

 

 

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darthlaker, we used a pair of 3A signatures for monitors and playback on the very stage the recordings were made.  Going from a master tape to vinyl (RTI) is very similar but the master has an immediacy and clarity the vinyl does not have.  On a scale of 10 the LP would be a 9 but listening to the lacquer was a 9.5.  Emotionally the playback of the master on the stage was like a good photo (film) but this would be much improved if we had the Model Sevens back then.  It remains impossible to recreate the connection with the artists because the body language is missing.  The interesting observation today would be how valid all of the design principals still are today if realism and the soul of music were the primary goal.  Comments from the artists were all about how the sound "just felt right" therefore very familiar.  I'm good with that.

RV

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I gulped at the street price for Saudades on vinyl a few months ago when i became aware of it. I did not not know about the other disc, thank you @darthlaker for this….love the forum for things just such as this. I took a flyer on the CD of Saudades and IF you have an excellent dac, IMO sounds fantastic. I think both Steve Edwards and Tim M can weigh in as they have heard the Cd in own systems w Quattro and Treo respectively….

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18 hours ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

darthlaker, we used a pair of 3A signatures for monitors and playback on the very stage the recordings were made.  Going from a master tape to vinyl (RTI) is very similar but the master has an immediacy and clarity the vinyl does not have.  On a scale of 10 the LP would be a 9 but listening to the lacquer was a 9.5.  Emotionally the playback of the master on the stage was like a good photo (film) but this would be much improved if we had the Model Sevens back then.  It remains impossible to recreate the connection with the artists because the body language is missing.  The interesting observation today would be how valid all of the design principals still are today if realism and the soul of music were the primary goal.  Comments from the artists were all about how the sound "just felt right" therefore very familiar.  I'm good with that.

RV

Thanks Richard for sharing your thoughts! Yes, I am sure it would be interesting making a recording again and comparing with the Sevens.

Time for recording number 3?   🙂 

13 hours ago, TomicTime said:

I ordered an LP copy of Only Love, will advise when it arrives….

Jim

Great stuff Jim, looking forward to hearing your thoughts....

 

 

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6 hours ago, darthlaker said:

Thanks Richard for sharing your thoughts! Yes, I am sure it would be interesting making a recording again and comparing with the Sevens.

Time for recording number 3?   🙂 

Great stuff Jim, looking forward to hearing your thoughts....

 

 

That is what is so amazing about the whole thing as it would not change anything other than playback vs. live would be more similar top to bottom (closer to the truth) than it was with the 3A Signatures!  No thanks on the third recording as I have plenty of resolution in the originals to know what to do with speaker design.  It is amazing how this type of comparison drives home the importance of time and phase which is widely ignored by 99.9% of the industry.  Advances in our speakers and amplifiers have driven the comparison closer to the actual experience in every way without requiring a significant change in design parameters (basics being discovered now over 40 years ago) over that many years.

RV

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1 hour ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

That is what is so amazing about the whole thing as it would not change anything other than playback vs. live would be more similar top to bottom (closer to the truth) than it was with the 3A Signatures!  No thanks on the third recording as I have plenty of resolution in the originals to know what to do with speaker design.  It is amazing how this type of comparison drives home the importance of time and phase which is widely ignored by 99.9% of the industry.  Advances in our speakers and amplifiers have driven the comparison closer to the actual experience in every way without requiring a significant change in design parameters (basics being discovered now over 40 years ago) over that many years.

RV

aw..man, I thought we were getting the band back together……

 

 

Edited by TomicTime
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17 hours ago, Steve Edwards said:

Yes, the Saudades disc sounds fantastic.  While it is not my favorite style of music, it is a phenomenal recording. 

Agree...sounds insane!

16 hours ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

That is what is so amazing about the whole thing as it would not change anything other than playback vs. live would be more similar top to bottom (closer to the truth) than it was with the 3A Signatures!  No thanks on the third recording as I have plenty of resolution in the originals to know what to do with speaker design.  It is amazing how this type of comparison drives home the importance of time and phase which is widely ignored by 99.9% of the industry.  Advances in our speakers and amplifiers have driven the comparison closer to the actual experience in every way without requiring a significant change in design parameters (basics being discovered now over 40 years ago) over that many years.

RV

Richard,

Have you ever considered making a model 7 with a switch box (or something similar) that would let one select a first order, second order or third order crossover and letting the audio magazines write an article about what they hear? AND/OR get those model 7's to tour around your different dealers so people can hear the differences?

 

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Where would I be able to get the CD or a download of it?  I'd be more curious than anything as I dont' even know what the music is, lol. ;). Very cool find.  This is the type of win a free beer at the bar question.  'What audio recordings has Vandersteen produced'?  Ha

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4 hours ago, darthlaker said:

Agree...sounds insane!

Richard,

Have you ever considered making a model 7 with a switch box (or something similar) that would let one select a first order, second order or third order crossover and letting the audio magazines write an article about what they hear? AND/OR get those model 7's to tour around your different dealers so people can hear the differences?

 

This would have to be 2 totally different speakers and then change them out!  Each of them with all the R&D required to go into production with the second and third order most likely haveing the midrange out of phase.  Not enough money in this universe to get me to do that.

RV

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6 hours ago, ctsooner said:

Where would I be able to get the CD or a download of it?  I'd be more curious than anything as I dont' even know what the music is, lol. ;). Very cool find.  This is the type of win a free beer at the bar question.  'What audio recordings has Vandersteen produced'?  Ha

Pete i sent you and Tim a group text on the CD…

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7 hours ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

This would have to be 2 totally different speakers and then change them out!  Each of them with all the R&D required to go into production with the second and third order most likely haveing the midrange out of phase.  Not enough money in this universe to get me to do that.

RV

Ah, ok, makes sense...

Thanks for the reply!

 

 

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