Speaker wires

[Holmz]

Currently I have some lamp cord running to the speakers.
The old AQ fat cables barely reached from the speakers to the VTL mono blocks… and one of those VTLs died, so the PrimaLuna is almost ready to go now. I need to change power transformer taps and get a cord from the wall into it.

I am thinking of using some 4–core Mogami W3104… mostly because I have some, and secondly if the specs are good does it matter?

• 56 pF/meter
• 0.6uH/meter
   

This a 4 core, so I can bi wire the speaker, and I could tart up the cables  with some techflex braided cover.

And then I save some coins for the cartridge and the record cleaner.

Or are they more important than I give them credit for? i.e. more important than a cleaner and/or cartridge?

[GdnrBob]

I was never one to spend a chunk of money on cables, until I heard the AQ William Tell's at Audioconnection (with @ctsooner).

The sonic differences were so outrageously obvious that I ended up moving to an all AQ interconnect/power cord system(s).

The only cords that didn't make a sizable difference were the XLR's- no discernable change from the cables Ralph Karsten sold me (Mogami?) and the AQ Mackenzie.

B

[nrenter]

Are speaker cables more important than a cartridge / record cleaner? Maybe. Are they more fun? Nope. Not at all. Given the choice, I'd spend money on the cartridge and record cleaner. When the time is right, and you're open to it, a system-wide upgrade is a cable swap away.

[ctsooner]

Cords and cables are the last things to upgrade. That said when I installed the AQ cords I was blown away. The speaker cables went from William tell to their silver variant. Well worth th upgrade for me. Not even close. 

[TomicTime]

my advice is work transducers the hardest. Speaker, Tonearm / Cartridge or DAC

Basic physics…changing one kind of energy into another is difficult… In tge case of a cartridge, magic happens at the micron level.

 

[TomicTime]

on the Mogami. You wont get ALl the benefits of a true external biwire which involves keeping the Mid/high frequency cable 2-4” apart from the bass. I would advise trying it both ways; internal biwire as is your idea, and as a more conventional arrangement w 2 wires each tor +/- and a jumper to the MF/tweeter made out of same cable.

Try both, let us know how it sounds.

Best to you

Jim

[Holmz]

2 hours ago, TomicTime said:

my advice is work transducers the hardest. Speaker, Tonearm / Cartridge or DAC

Basic physics…changing one kind of energy into another is difficult… In tge case of a cartridge, magic happens at the micron level.

It is very cool when we think about that little motor/generator that is a cartridge generating current from a wriggle in vinyl.

 

2 hours ago, TomicTime said:

on the Mogami. You wont get ALl the benefits of a true external biwire which involves keeping the Mid/high frequency cable 2-4” apart from the bass. I would advise trying it both ways; internal biwire as is your idea, and as a more conventional arrangement w 2 wires each tor +/- and a jumper to the MF/tweeter made out of same cable.

Try both, let us know how it sounds.

Best to you

Jim

Thanks Jim. I got one single channel of an old Marantz integrated that is working, and have that going into a single Vandy at the moment with some lamp cord. And listing to Doug McLeod’s “Live in Europe” while organising the living room, searching for interconnects, and throwing crap out.

So I can likely only get better from here 😉 

All the best to you Sir !

[ctsooner]

Jim is dead on.  This is why I’m going anal on the DAC’s I’m looking at. I’m down to MSB Discrete with ProUSB and extra internal LPS, Brinkmann Nyquist or Meitner MA3. I realize that no matter how good the rest of the system sounds, synergy is even more important. I guess u can tune a bit with wires, but it’s all about the transducers first and last. Great amps are a plus, but not as important. 

[Holmz]

2 hours ago, ctsooner said:

Jim is dead on.  This is why I’m going anal on the DAC’s I’m looking at. I’m down to MSB Discrete with ProUSB and extra internal LPS, Brinkmann Nyquist or Meitner MA3. I realize that no matter how good the rest of the system sounds, synergy is even more important. I guess u can tune a bit with wires, but it’s all about the transducers first and last. Great amps are a plus, but not as important. 

How about the Topping D70? It looks pretty good to me. With some transport into it, or a computer or Roon, etc… Maybe some Schmicko clock driving it, but it has a good clock inside of it.

They have like 120+ dB of either SNR or IMD or THD. It is almost beyond comprehension, and under 1 kilo $, and works with computers and streaming. (Tell me why I should look at something else.)

 

The Marantz I was using… was really a Pioneer. And the right hand speaker was sounding good. I checked resistance with Fluke DMM and the cables looked good. 2 hours later the PrimaLuna was in, and no RHS woofer sounds. There is a red light on the PL in the RHS, and their manual on the download page stops 2/3 of the way through.

I’ll switch cables at the amp, on the morrow. But I got the CD —> Preamp —> amp —> speakers cabled up, so I am making progress(es).  The high notes sound good, but a smeared image once the low notes come in.

[Holmz]

Swapped LHS for RHS at the amp and the bad channel moved.

Then swapped the CD play and RCAs for a short set of RCS and a headphone jack into the iPhone, and it came good. (Since I had just made the RCAs and the Speaker cables I was correlating them with the problem. It is either the CD player of the store bought 5M RCAs that are problem.)

The red light on the PL amp is UltraLinear, and I can get it to Triode… which is a green light. (I was not expecting the difference between TR and UL  to be what I was hearing).

[Ross B.]

I'm with others that cables should be the last thing you spend money on. I've never noticed much difference between cables, personally. I like to have something of a high quality level to go with my system, but only after everything else is done, and mostly for "aesthetics".

That said, I'm running AQ Rocket 33 speaker cables, which have insulation between the two runs, which provides more separation than four wires in one tube. I want to try building my own cable, for the fun of it, one day. My idea is to place each run in a braided copper shield, grounded to the negative side on the amp, then add an air-filled spacer between them, then wrap the whole thing up in Techflex or similar.

[Holmz]

3 hours ago, Ross B. said:

I'm with others that cables should be the last thing you spend money on. I've never noticed much difference between cables, personally. I like to have something of a high quality level to go with my system, but only after everything else is done, and mostly for "aesthetics".

That said, I'm running AQ Rocket 33 speaker cables, which have insulation between the two runs, which provides more separation than four wires in one tube. I want to try building my own cable, for the fun of it, one day. My idea is to place each run in a braided copper shield, grounded to the negative side on the amp, then add an air-filled spacer between them, then wrap the whole thing up in Techflex or similar.

#Metoo.

https://www.techflex.com/metal-shielding/copper-braid?product_selected=MBC0.38CP

[Ross B.]

8 minutes ago, Holmz said:

#Metoo.

https://www.techflex.com/metal-shielding/copper-braid?product_selected=MBC0.38CP

Aye, I've had my eye on that stuff for a long time.

Have you ever tried ViaBlue's cable sleeves? https://viablue.de/com/accessories_braided_sleeve_black.php

They weave in some additional nylon fiber or something which gives it a softer feel. It's the closest DIY sleeving to the factory stuff used by commercial brands.

[Holmz]

1 hour ago, Ross B. said:

Aye, I've had my eye on that stuff for a long time.

Have you ever tried ViaBlue's cable sleeves? https://viablue.de/com/accessories_braided_sleeve_black.php

They weave in some additional nylon fiber or something which gives it a softer feel. It's the closest DIY sleeving to the factory stuff used by commercial brands.

No Ross,

I have not tried that specific stuff.
Many of my woodworking tool I got out of Europe when the GST+Duty started at 1000 (AUD), so I got good tools for less cost than the run of the mill stuff for etc same cost.
I took off the cord with the Schuko end, and put a sometimes longer cord (somtimes shorter) cord with a neutral PowerCon (In yellow for the 230v). Then I put on something like (but more white with red in it - as the tools are red)... Just tart em up a bit.

https://www.wirecare.com/interest/home-office/home-office-wire-protection-customization/flexo-pet/ptn1-00rws-flexo-pet-1-red-white-tracer-spyder-5-ft-cuts

The saying is that a good craftsman does not blame his tools, so I sort of ran out of excuses by doing that. 😒

[GdnrBob]

On 9/22/2021 at 8:08 AM, ctsooner said:

I’m looking at. I’m down to MSB Discrete with ProUSB and extra internal LPS, Brinkmann Nyquist or Meitner MA3.

What happened to the DCS Bartok? I thought you found that to be exceptional.

B

[ctsooner]

It is exceptional Bob.  I didn't find the MA3 to be in the same league as the others.  I bought a demo fully up to date Brinkmann Nyquist from the Vandy dealer in Ontario, CN.  I called the dealers I know in the US to see if what they had on demo or used as I couldn't afford what I want any other way.  I thought it had an internal volume control and found out it really doesn't. (it's only for the headphone amp.  I now need to get a preamp, but I'm waiting on a specific one.  I will just try and find a decent balanced preamp used.  I'll need to get it for the right price, so that I can sell it later on this year and not lose money.  I found some older Audio Research LS27's and an LS28 that I can afford.  I also found a Burmeister 099 I believe it is.  It's a 2003 preamp.  The price is very good.  

I guess I should open up a thread on this forum to find out what folks recommend, lol.  I have a strong idea of which way I'm going to go. I did reach out to Johnny Rutan (my main dealer) to see what he has used in his basement that isn't listed on his site etc...  I'll call other dealers to see if they have anything they need/want to move quickly as long as I can sell it for what I get it for.  Oh the humanity.

 

 

[Stringreen]

I know it sounds odd, but a couple of years ago, John Rutan lent me Audioquest WML Signature cables.   Sure they were beautifully made, but the sound was disappointing in my system.

[Holmz]

2 hours ago, Stringreen said:

I know it sounds odd, but a couple of years ago, John Rutan lent me Audioquest WML Signature cables.   Sure they were beautifully made, but the sound was disappointing in my system.

Why odd?
If they had high capacitance or inductance, then maybe they would be good on some other (brighter) speaker?

And if all the cables were capacitance=0, inductance=0, and resistance=0… then I would expect them to all sound similar.

In any case, my current cables are certainly pretty tough to look at visually.

[Stringreen]

In my experience, there is very little difference in the sound of XLR balanced cables.  My system is fully balanced even cartridge out to preamp.   Has anyone tried Doug Schroeder designed cables?

[TomicTime]

String what are you using now ? how long is the run ? BTW i am so hoping you can visit in San Diego sometime……bring tge violin Dude !,

best to you

 

Jim

[Stringreen]

On 10/12/2021 at 8:07 PM, TomicTime said:

String what are you using now ? how long is the run ? BTW i am so hoping you can visit in San Diego sometime……bring tge violin Dude !,

best to you

 

Jim

I change speaker wires like some change socks.....    they are about 4 ft left/right.   I haven't had much luck with silver cables.  If that request for visit is for me, I'm in Scottsdale, Az.

[Holmz]

28 minutes ago, Stringreen said:

I change speaker wires like some change socks.....    they are about 4 ft …

I am picturing “The Secret Island of Dr Moraeu”, and the boing o song that followed.

 

 

[ctsooner]

I loved them in the 80’s when I was in SD. Many great times with their music.  Ha. No I can’t share what those times were. Ha. 

[Holmz]

6 hours ago, ctsooner said:

I loved them in the 80’s when I was in SD. Many great times with their music.  Ha. No I can’t share what those times were. Ha. 

I had a g/f in Pacific Beach back in 81-83 ish…
Used to ride the bicycle from Huntington Beach down there and then take the train back.

More recently have been down there on a couple of work trips. They have a cafe on the top floor of one of the buildings with a million dollar view.

The whole SD experience is easy to take with the gas light district. Did you ever get a meal at El Indio?
It was a bit of dive, but the food was great, and they were still in operation the last time is was there (~2016 I think?)
 

I did see Boingo, Madness, and the Police at SDSU in that era. The first two bands were great.

[ctsooner]

Haven't been back since I left in late 86.  Been back to LA a TON.. Heck, used to travel there 2 weeks a month for work for 3 yrs.  Go to Rose Bowl when OU plays etc..  We used to eat in the Barrio at Chuey's.  It was a quncit hut and then they built a brick and mortar place in 83 or 4.  The Gas Lamp district was still all XXX when I was there.  Took a few women to the theater 😉.  Fun times back then.  The O clubs had ladies night on Wed (Mirimar), Thursday (Mongolian BBQ at NAB Coronado) and Fridays at MCRD over near Pt Loma area.  We used to go listen to music on the beach at the Spiniker adn another club on Sundays and then we'd do the Mexican place next to The Comedy Store (or the other comedy place from LA) in PB I believe it was.  I also lived in Irvine on the Newport Beach border in an apt off the 405.  I used to ride my bike from there down to Dana Point and play basketball or volley ball on the beach in Laguna.  There was a cool restaurant on the rocks at the end of a walk. The courts were right there if I recall correctly.  Man that was long ago and the MS doesn't help, lol.  Bruce had set me up with some Moscode adn CJ electronics to go with my Polk 10's.  Those were great speakers and I did get the Polk speaker cables thrown in as the owner, Joe, loved me.  I was only 13 when I purchased my Yamaha CR 620 and YP211 TT with the top Grado cartridge.  He taught me part of the business including mark ups.  Heck the cartridges back then were all about the same price to make, but they charged more as you went up the line.  I got the top one for Joe's cost.  Heck, even the gear was probably only about 20% over his costs.  I took drum lessons next door and loved music. Joe was an orchestra conductor for his real job, lol.  He took care of me as I also brought in all my buddies to get systems.  He sold at least 10 of his 500 systems to them.  House made 3 ways (they sounded great btw), the Yamaha CR 620 receivers, Garrard TT with the entry Grado.  He gave me an upgrade to the YP211 with the top Grado.  Sound was amazing as my dad let me set up the system properly.  It supplanted the one I went with him to get at JOe's when I was only 10 (it's when I got into the hobby).  That's where I met Joe Grado, David Hafler, Henry Kloss, Paul Klipsch.  Those are the ones I remember, but he had so many designers over.  I remember the names, because I associated them with their gear.  They LOVED seeing a kid in the basement room listening to Klipsch, Phase Linear, Crown and I forget the top TT/cart.  He also used a lot of reel to reel stuff.  Even then I heard a difference from the tt.

Didn't mean to hijack ... carry on, 🙂