DC-93 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 With a Vandertseen speaker maintaining the proper phase angle of the input, what about the changes to a signal as it goes through the amp? My old tubed McIntosh MC240 was rated at 0 phase shift, plus or minus 6 degrees. (20hz to 20khz) My Carver TFM 35x is rated at 0 phase shift, plus/minus 10 degrees. Questions: Is this audible? How do new amps compare? Do they even list specs for this anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 @Richard Vandersteen the MC240 was perhaps the pinnacle of transformer design for both bandwidth and other effects. i don’t know the negative feedback db but it must be relatively low. I think sonic differences between the Carver and the Mac are most likely not due to differences in phase error. My 240 images quite well , especially image depth. I use the Opus 3 Depth of Image test disc to assist in tgis assessment. Cool ? i copied RV to spur a weigh in from him…. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GdnrBob Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 If anyone can point me to some not too technical resources regarding phase shift and phase shift with regards to impedance, I would appreciate it. I have a limited understanding about it, but want to finally lock it down. B 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC-93 Posted November 24, 2021 Author Share Posted November 24, 2021 13 hours ago, GdnrBob said: If anyone can point me to some not too technical resources regarding phase shift and phase shift with regards to impedance, I would appreciate it. I have a limited understanding about it, but want to finally lock it down. B Good point. An amp changes the phase depending on frequency and impedance of the speakers. The BEST amp technically would be perfectly phase shift free, even with impedance changes in the speaker response curve. As far as tube versus solid state amps, I hear sonic differences in what I call the "signature" of the amp. My buddy just fully restored a 1962 Bogen DS265 tube amp for me. I'm looking forward to hearing how it pairs up with various vintage speakers I have restored. The output transformers are MASSIVE. Bench tested at over 72 WPC, 20hz -20Khz. Question for RV: For the 2Ce Sig II, what output tap would be better to use, 4 or 8 ohm? thanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Vandersteen Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 On 11/23/2021 at 5:55 AM, DC-93 said: With a Vandertseen speaker maintaining the proper phase angle of the input, what about the changes to a signal as it goes through the amp? My old tubed McIntosh MC240 was rated at 0 phase shift, plus or minus 6 degrees. (20hz to 20khz) My Carver TFM 35x is rated at 0 phase shift, plus/minus 10 degrees. Questions: Is this audible? How do new amps compare? Do they even list specs for this anymore? This was only a factor with tube amps because it was used as an indicator of the bandwidth of the output transformer. It may be a factor today with class "D" amplifiers especially with DSP as some of them have steep filters on the output near 20KHz. This narow bandwith with steep filters could cause significant phase shift. RV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 (edited) @DC-93the appropriate transformer tap to use is the one that sounds the best. Experiment and listen. I don’t listen very loudly here in the condo with Treo and a 40 wpc tube amp. Something i learned from Roger Modjeski was to try the lowest tap that yields best sonics. This is called “ light loading “ and my understanding is the amp stays in class A longer…. Hope this helps ! Jim Edited December 8, 2021 by TomicTime 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Edwards Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Thank you Jim; very enlightening. And from the little I know (so far), Roger Modjeski was a brilliant designer and a wonderful person. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctsooner Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 Loved his gear, that's for sure. Too many folks are only able to hear what their local stores have or what a friend may have. There is a ton of well engineered products for a fair cost at all price points. I used to love putting together systems back in the day for 1k-2k. That included cables (who even had special power cords back then), turntable and cart, an integrated and speakers with stands if needed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Edwards Posted December 11, 2021 Share Posted December 11, 2021 Yes Peter, if a $10 bottle of wine tastes good to you, than it is good wine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctsooner Posted December 11, 2021 Share Posted December 11, 2021 59 minutes ago, Steve Edwards said: Yes Peter, if a $10 bottle of wine tastes good to you, than it is good wine It may lack layers, but I enjoy many wines under $13 or so (damn inflation). Ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizee Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 I’ve had cheap Scotch and good Scotch but never both attributes together… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stringreen Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 for the hellofvit......try Costco Scotch..... the more expensive one is better ....but the cheap is fine for experimenting and guests. Recommended 13 dollar wine from Costco is Meiomi Pino Noir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Edwards Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 Interesting ................. maybe we should start a Recommended Beverages To Accompany Music Through Vandersteen Speakers column. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GdnrBob Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Steve Edwards said: Interesting ................. maybe we should start a Recommended Beverages To Accompany Music Through Vandersteen Speakers column. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC-93 Posted December 19, 2021 Author Share Posted December 19, 2021 A few shots of anything can make any system sound better! 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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