Iso Acoustic Gaia Series Isolation Footers

[John Gallup]

30 minutes ago, ctsooner said:

Who is your Vandersteen dealer?  Just call them and they will get them for you. Very inexpensive.  They are called the spike Shoes if I recall correctly.   

My dealer is Stereo Unlimited in San Diego. But are the Vandershoes any different from what's shown in my pictures?

[ctsooner]

Yes they are much different.  Richard makes them specifically for his speakers so the cones fit nicely, but the 'felt' on the bottom is not regular felt.  It does make a difference according to Richard.  I just installed them on mine, but want to listen crucially and have-not' had teh time recently to do that. I will in Jan.

[MNSki]

This is what the Vandersteen spike shoes look like.

[John Gallup]

10 minutes ago, MNSki said:

This is what the Vandersteen spike shoes look like.

They're solid metal, I take it, in alignment with Richard's belief that speakers must be anchored to the floor solidly.

[John Gallup]

27 minutes ago, John Gallup said:

They're solid metal, I take it, in alignment with Richard's belief that speakers must be anchored to the floor solidly.

Oh, just read ctsooner's post above and see that they have felt.

[ctsooner]

it's a special type of felt guys and it seems to make a difference.  

[Steve Edwards]

John, I can't speak to the footers you've been using, but I replaced Herbie's Audio Cone / Spike Gliders with Vandersteen footers and the improvement in overall resolution was not subtle.  

For under $150, they are the highest ROI I have ever experienced in this life-long passion.

[BKDad]

(I'm very reluctantly re-entering this fray)

Have you guys read this?  >. https://www.stereophile.com/content/bob-katz-loudspeaker-isolation

The author doesn't really offer an explanation he stands behind - he's just relaying his observations, both objective (measurements) and what some might call subjective (listening based.)  That's entirely fair.  He's clear about it, which is all one can ask.

But, his conclusions are not what I've found and I think not what some people here have found.

So, what is it?  Are different people just preferring different sound qualities?  Are Vandersteen fans just different cats from most of the rest?  

My hypothesis is this:

Richard Vandersteen has a particular design approach and set of design goals.  One of those is to minimize cabinet resonances through various technical solutions he has invented.  Hold that thought...

What you place under the loudspeakers mechanically couples the structure of the loudspeaker to the rest of the environment.  All the weight of the speakers centers on three little spots, between the cones and spikes and the rest.  The rest of coupling mechanism, and the floor itself, must affect the overall resonance of the combined floor and loudspeaker system.  That's kind of basic physics, right?

So, my contention is that loudspeakers react differently to how they're coupled to the floor based on the cabinet design itself.  Their overall system mechanical resonance characteristics change with different coupling schemes.  The overall system resonance and all that it entails is one of the key factors that affect the system sound.

Pretty simple, eh?  As in, "duh!"

Those loudspeakers that work better with gooey coupling to the floor are that way by their design.  Maybe that wasn't the design goal per se, but that's how it ended up.  Sounds a little scary to me, but I am one of those cats I mentioned above.  :8^)

The Vandersteen designs clearly work best with certain coupling approaches.  Richard has done the work to describe the best solutions for his loudspeakers.  

Now, I wish I had measured cabinet resonances before and after and had measured the system response as well.   Just out of curiosity.  (My ears do fine for making choices for me.  Thankfully, my wife pretty much agrees with my choices.)

So, the point of this excessively long drivel is that it probably makes sense to follow the guidelines presented by your own loudspeaker designer.  He - it almost certainly is a he; why is that? - knows enough about loudspeaker design and manufacture that you spent your cash on his product.  Why not at least try the recommendations?

Sidebar:  Relative acoustic measurements from changes in your system are pretty easy to make with a calibrated microphone, a decent A-D converter, and REW software.  That costs about $250 total, unless you add in a microphone stand.  Accelerometers are pretty cheap these days.  Absolute measurements are much harder.  But, most everybody here just wants to make their own system sound better, and maybe lend the gear to buddies who wish to do the same, so the cheaper stuff works fine.  Just be rigorous in your measurements.

https://audioxpress.com/article/testing-loudspeakers-which-measurements-matter-part-1

https://www.stereophile.com/features/806/index.html

[ctsooner]

We have missed your posts.  You are one of the most insightful posters I've read on any board and you seem like a really nice guy to boot.  There is a bit to unpack here, but I totally agree with what you are saying. 

My buddy did a footers shoot out using nearly every footer known to audio.  I spoke with many of the designers to find out their philosophy.  He came away with findings that he assumed as well as many that he didn't.  He found that folded cases did best with HRS footers designed for this type of case (their polymer ones that sit inside the metal housings.  ISO came in second here adn he even wrote in last months TAS that he felt teh ISO's were a special value.  I like the HRS footers more and they are not much more money if at all (we all hear so differently).  He found the HRS footers made for milled metal cabinets were the best. 

Brad please chime in here!!! lol. (he also reps HRS)

Again, it's handling the transmission differently for different designs.  This is why it's so easy to believe what you are saying is probably true.

As for Vandersteen owners being different cats.... I AGREE 100% and so does Richard as well as the dealers.  Teh dealers sell other gear and know.  If someone doesn't care about brand, wants to hear music and doesn't listen to teh review of the month (even though our Steen's constantly garner major international pub) then they are open to the line.  

[BKDad]

Thank you for the soft soaping attempt.   😉  

"I appreciate that, Clark" - Cousin Eddie Johnson.  The context is proper, too.  > https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/94dd9754-b110-43aa-a74e-7a7cddba03e7

I'm still starting my New Year's resolution of not participating in online forums a little early, just to get in practice.  This particular subject just happened to be timely and relevant to the subject here.  My general idea of trying to help people help themselves is so not 2021.  Too arrogant and it's not really appreciated, which I get.  If somebody wanted my opinion, they'd probably ask for it!  

 

[Holmz]

On 12/22/2020 at 1:14 AM, BKDad said:

(I'm very reluctantly re-entering this fray)

...

What you place under the loudspeakers mechanically couples the structure of the loudspeaker to the rest of the environment.  All the weight of the speakers centers on three little spots, between the cones and spikes and the rest.  The rest of coupling mechanism, and the floor itself, must affect the overall resonance of the combined floor and loudspeaker system.  That's kind of basic physics, right?

So, my contention is that loudspeakers react differently to how they're coupled to the floor based on the cabinet design itself.  Their overall system mechanical resonance characteristics change with different coupling schemes.  The overall system resonance and all that it entails is one of the key factors that affect the system sound.

…

 

I am not smart enough to stay out of the fray.

It could be to couple the speaker to floor to limit translation and rotation of the cabinet in opposition to the drivers forces, (equal and opposite reaction) that may be somewhat like lowering the resonance, but it more like lowering the amplitude as it does not seem like a high Q resonant system.

The granite slabs are doing a similar thing, and in the extreme with say a floppy trampoline floor in an earthquake, the granite on springs would make the cabinet seem heavier and move less … even if the floor was rolling and rocking with foot steps etc. 
It should basically reduce some of the Doppler type of induced distortion, which would probably be low.
(At least I think that is the case? - I better crack open the physics book.)

[Bill]

I bolted my old 3A Sigs to the floor to keep kids/pets from tipping them over.  So my reaction mass was basically planet earth.  😄

[Holmz]

On 9/11/2021 at 1:17 AM, Bill said:

I bolted my old 3A Sigs to the floor to keep kids/pets from tipping them over.  So my reaction mass was basically planet earth.  😄

As long as Archimedes doesn’t make an appearance, then you’ll be fine…