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Quatros and M5 amps are here


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14 hours ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

the first and most critical part of setting up a pair of Vandersteen's is getting the tilt set on the cones. 

I just checked mine yesterday.  I was one washer too many on each side to hit the recommended 8' above ear listening height with a laser.  Got my neighbor to help me reset.  And, after numerous toe-in adjustments, I went back to straight ahead.  I'm now hearing the most expansive imaging yet  ........................  life is good in the sweet spot. 

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Something must be in the air in terms of fussing with set-up. Recently, per a similar post here, I purchased a cheap folding room divider/screen to close off the left speaker from bleeding into my large adjacent dining room opening. Just to check out the difference. Well, what do you know, (not really surprising), a significant change in soundstage.  This inexpensive louver screen acts more as a diffuser, but, also keeps the sound waves within my listening area as well as a reflection surface.  Afterwards, I was able to spread the Treo’s apart another 6-7”, and that really opened-up the stage and imaging  in between the speakers. Lots of fussing, readjusting the washers for tilt and alignment of both, even just this morning, but I’m close, and a significant improvement overall.

 

 

 

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As a hybrid listening and TV/lining room Pete, (HT and 2-channel, but separated 2-channel equipment-wise via the pre bi-pass), it’s always a challenge. But every little and large change has helped a lot over time. Thanks to this forum for providing some beneficial ideas. 

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On cones now with what I think is proper tilt. I am not 100% done, but wife is at limit of patience tilting and holding Quatros. 

For now, I am using the aforementioned Linn Skeets for shoes to protect hardware. I did not use the thick fiber furniture pads from Lowes. Instead, I used 3M silicone pads which are self adhesive, 0.06 thick, difficult to compress, and high friction for skidding and movement. 
 

I had to shim the right speaker with 2 of the thin washers to get the beam at the same waterline as the left speaker. You can see them in pics. 
 

Will listen this way for a few days before making next tweaks. 
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Left:

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Right:

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Left speaker, 5 washers. 
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Right speaker, 5 washers plus 2 thin washers.   Not sure why image flipped. 
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Edited by JonM
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Also, based on Richards reply last night, I wanted to verify there was no gap between the front cones and the bottom of the chassis. But, the cones fit into a counterbored pocket, so there was no room for feeler gauge to validate. I fully torqued finger/hand tight and they seems to seat well. 

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Ha B, something must be in the air indeed!

Steve, like you, this past week I went from a slightly toed in set up for the 5As to a straight ahead set up, and found that the presentation sounded a little more relaxed and natural, a little less hot. And yesterday I pressed my wife into service to help me, so I wouldn’t be crushed beneath a speaker, and added one washer to the rear of my right speaker to match the left’s tilt on the “magic X” 8 inches above ear height at the ideal listening spot. More goodness ensued.

I will confess that much of the time I sit off axis, where the living room chair is a in a more “domestically acceptable” position. But even in that position I find the music very satisfying, and the experience is not unlike being off-center in a concert hall or at a rock ‘n’ roll show.

what a lot of fun all of this is!

Best, John

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I’d like to have one more thin washer on the right, to bring the beam down a hair bit more towards the 8” line. But there is some fuzziness in my target… it’s not tooled in!

Edited by JonM
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Keep tweaking Jon, you will get there, but, also let your ears do some work. As if often stated, you kinda know when it’s right because it sounds right. And, what sounds right to you is the most important.

Then, a couple months later, you fuss with it again, because that’s what we do 😁

How many times have I tweaked things, just to eventually go back to my last setting. I try to take notes, just for that reason.

Edited by bkeske
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15 hours ago, bkeske said:

you kinda know when it’s right because it sounds right

Yes Brian, as I've said before, if a glass of wine tastes good to you, then it is good wine.

And to your point Brian, I guess it is in our nature to fuss with our set-ups.  Knowing that I have lost some of the high frequencies in my hearing, a while back I thought I'd add a washer to each side, thinking it would point the tweeters more directly at my ears. Due to the unevenness of my concrete floor, I need one more washer on the right side than the left.   I thought I heard the treble a little better, but after setting them back to the "magic 8" tilt, I don't think the highs are diminished at all, and the presentation now, to quote Johnny R, has popped into focus.

John, glad to hear that your straight out positioning is benefiting your sound; it certainly did mine.

Play on

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The Audioquest back shells are plastic and non-conductive. Thanks to members here who private messaged me to let me know. I also filed one a tiny bit to know for sure with my own eyes and hands. I re-installed them per new/normal. 
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Lounge cat pic for added views and responses. 
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  • 4 weeks later...

Over the last few weeks I have reduced the amount of toe in. I started with a pretty significant 15 degrees, now I am down to 4 degrees from normal. Much, much better soundstage and the vocals are still perfectly centered and realistic.  The band now sounds wider than the speakers, which I quite like as opposed to everyone bunched up in the center.  I haven’t gone to zero toe in, but I will try it just for kicks eventually. 
 

Speakers are 13’3” from my ear and 9’9” tweeter to tweeter. 
 

For tilt, I am still at 5 washers left and 5 washers plus 2 thin washers right.  That tracks the chart in the manual perfectly, but sometimes I think the music is a hair too low in the room and I am tempted to go down a washer and aim up a bit. 
 

I am still running flat with no room EQ yet. 
 

I do not love having the rack and the fireplace between the speakers. It creates a lot of constraints. I am not sure how those objects affect sound too. The countermeasure would have been to order another meter or more of XLR.  But, we are moving out of this house soon anyway so I will try better next Haus.  If I have to buy longer XLRs maybe I can get the ordered with the DBS on the correct amp end.
 

I do wonder, but have not tried nor suggested to wife, about moving seating closer to speakers. That will face some domestic resistance. 

296F8966-233F-4F05-8B6F-E6E82BDD7C20.jpeg

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7 hours ago, JonM said:

Over the last few weeks I have reduced the amount of toe in. I started with a pretty significant 15 degrees, now I am down to 4 degrees from normal. Much, much better soundstage and the vocals are still perfectly centered and realistic.  The band now sounds wider than the speakers, which I quite like as opposed to everyone bunched up in the center.  I haven’t gone to zero toe in, but I will try it just for kicks eventually. 
 

Speakers are 13’3” from my ear and 9’9” tweeter to tweeter. 
 

For tilt, I am still at 5 washers left and 5 washers plus 2 thin washers right.  That tracks the chart in the manual perfectly, but sometimes I think the music is a hair too low in the room and I am tempted to go down a washer and aim up a bit. 
 

I am still running flat with no room EQ yet. 
 

I do not love having the rack and the fireplace between the speakers. It creates a lot of constraints. I am not sure how those objects affect sound too. The countermeasure would have been to order another meter or more of XLR.  But, we are moving out of this house soon anyway so I will try better next Haus.  If I have to buy longer XLRs maybe I can get the ordered with the DBS on the correct amp end.
 

I do wonder, but have not tried nor suggested to wife, about moving seating closer to speakers. That will face some domestic resistance. 

296F8966-233F-4F05-8B6F-E6E82BDD7C20.jpeg

Jon, the thick washers are .06" and the thin ones are .03".  Two thin washers would be the same as one thick washer.  Just so this doesn't confuse anyone.  RV

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7 hours ago, JonM said:

Over the last few weeks I have reduced the amount of toe in. I started with a pretty significant 15 degrees, now I am down to 4 degrees from normal. Much, much better soundstage and the vocals are still perfectly centered and realistic.  The band now sounds wider than the speakers, which I quite like as opposed to everyone bunched up in the center.  I haven’t gone to zero toe in, but I will try it just for kicks eventually. 
 

Speakers are 13’3” from my ear and 9’9” tweeter to tweeter. 
 

For tilt, I am still at 5 washers left and 5 washers plus 2 thin washers right.  That tracks the chart in the manual perfectly, but sometimes I think the music is a hair too low in the room and I am tempted to go down a washer and aim up a bit. 
 

I am still running flat with no room EQ yet. 
 

I do not love having the rack and the fireplace between the speakers. It creates a lot of constraints. I am not sure how those objects affect sound too. The countermeasure would have been to order another meter or more of XLR.  But, we are moving out of this house soon anyway so I will try better next Haus.  If I have to buy longer XLRs maybe I can get the ordered with the DBS on the correct amp end.
 

I do wonder, but have not tried nor suggested to wife, about moving seating closer to speakers. That will face some domestic resistance. 

296F8966-233F-4F05-8B6F-E6E82BDD7C20.jpeg

Jon, the sound stage not being exact is common in many recordings but most never notice it until they have "time and phase" correct speakers.  Once you get your room EQ set you will notice the mids and soundstage snaps into focus.  If you have large standing wave issues you will hear a slight improvement in the bass but the surprising thing is it's  the mids opening up that's most noticed!  Good job on the floor bounce solution.  RV

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17 minutes ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

Jon, the thick washers are .06" and the thin ones are .03".  Two thin washers would be the same as one thick washer.  Just so this doesn't confuse anyone.  RV

I checked that before I installed them… The thin washers in my kit (qty 4 total) are 0.15. And the thick ones are about 0.6.  If I am doing something wrong, I am not proud and take feedback well. 

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4D45226C-1CA4-436A-8B06-38ECBEFD3E08.jpeg

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8 minutes ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

Jon, the sound stage not being exact is common in many recordings but most never notice it until they have "time and phase" correct speakers.  Once you get your room EQ set you will notice the mids and soundstage snaps into focus.  If you have large standing wave issues you will hear a slight improvement in the bass but the surprising thing is it's  the mids opening up that's most noticed!  Good job on the floor bounce solution.  RV

Crappy recordings are much easier to spot now. There is a Greta Van Fleet track I like, and the drum kit is centered but the high hat is WAY off to the right. Like unnaturally, no way right. 
 

Looking forward to room EQ for sure.  May enlist wife as the meter reader and command barker, judge and jury. 

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