Vandersteens model 2

[bkeske]

@Vandersteen owner Congrats! Order up a new pair of ‘socks’, easy to install. Video on the web site/YouTube. Did you get the original sound anchor stands? That is critical.

Enjoy the 2’s. Legendary speakers.

[Vandersteen owner]

No sound anchor stands.I will .

[bkeske]

Try to find the anchors. As I say, they are critical in the 2’s set-up.

[TomicTime]

Congrats !,,,,,, Yes definitely get the stands for sure ! 

Enjoy the music

Jim

[arni]

Where is the info on how to remove the socks. I have heard it is on the site but cannot find it.

[arni]

Found it. Thanks so much. and the answer was just a coule posts up to.

 

One of my speakers looks like the one in the video. But the other was in a train wreck. No sock, no top or bottom, no plates inside the top or bottom, fiberglass sticking out the bottom, no poles, no ribs midway up, huge flake gouge out of the back. nothing there is painted black either.  so it needs a bit of work. The intact one has issues too. It has 10 foot cabinetry. At 10 feet it looks ok-ish. get closer and the hot tape edge banding is pretty glaring...and cheezy. As long as I need to make a new top and bottom for the trauma case I'll replace the top and bottom on both. I have some solid tiger maple that would be nice. And I won't have to joinht it up in wide pieces, I can joint up some pretty frames with nice joinery and then do a rubbed oil finish. It's actually a rather small area that needs finishing.

 

I hate dowels so I'll get my alignments with joinery. Too expensive for a production line but I only have to run 4 sticks through the saw. That caulk doesn't seem to be doing much but sticking things together and keeping stuff from rattling. so it can be properly scraped off and replaced with rope caulk for an anti rattle function. Then stick the top on with velcro or even assembly tape in place of the rope caulk. Again, these are expensive moves for a production operation.

 

Then I need bases. RV is talking about different angles for different ear heights. Sometimes I am sitting, sometimes standing and moving around. Things are always changing. So if they are going to tip they need to tip to different preset angles at a touch. What does that? A rocking chair.  So curved faceted rails/rockers for a base. Instant tilt from one facet to the next. (you heard it here first Richard). Then add some pretty serious ballast. I have 60 lbs on hand for the project and can get more any time.  If I do the facets right they won't fall over. I'll have to do some mocking up in scrap board to check the rail height. I don't think it will be much and my gut tells me it won't be symmetrical either..

 

or am I crazy?

[ctsooner]

in order to hear the speakers at their best (any speakers), there is only one specific way to set them up and that's where they have a sweet spot and sound their best. Doesn't mean they can't be listened to and loved when standing, walking or by others in the same room (or in the kitchen, lol),.  If you want to set them up the way they are designed, then get a pair of sound anchor stands that were made for them, set them up in the spot you think is best sounding in your room and follow the advice on the tilt (or the threads on this forum).  Set it up for your main listening seat when you are sitting comfortably.  The sweet spot still allows your head to move around quite a bit and even when not in the sweet spot they sound stunning and better than most other speakers to my ears.  Keep it simple.  As for the caps and poles, @Richard Vandersteen may chime in, but I'd think that you should make sure the top cap has the same opening as what the design calls for.  He used the socks (talked about in a recent thread), because the speakers inside were not going to be finish grade and it's a cheap way to hide them.  He's wired to spend money only where it count and we are the better for it as we can afford better systems for what other are literally playing thousands more for (a furniture grade finish).  As he says, that's why we have the Treo's on up to the System 9 and we pay for that and he's able to give us even better sound for the extra cost.

It's all good. Can't wait to see your wood work.  Many of us here have fun with wood, lol. 🙂. 

[Holmz]

6 hours ago, arni said:

Where is the info on how to remove the socks. I have heard it is on the site but cannot find it.

Just turn it up, up up, and blow the their socks off. 😁

[arni]

My lifestyle and the space in my houce is not remotely normal. I pretty much don't do furniture. Speakers go where speakers fit. There is no sweet spot....well, with my bookshelf speakers (rathers mysterious little things) the sweet spot is in the back yard about 20 feet from the open back door. With peakeras set randomly on shelves or whatnot at the front of the house outside the back door a ways it sounds like I have a live band in the house. Neighbors have commented on this too: "boy those guys are good, who are they?".  "uh, it's an album, man". That's where audiophile ends for me. I can turn on the stereo and be at the show.

 

If the model 2's can do this without being fussy I i may just wrap them in some chicken wire and listen to them. (I'm an industrial designer, machine designer and psychologist. We do things a bit differently). If they won't I'l put a serious case of pretty on them and slap them right back on craigslist for a grand wich is 900 more than I paid.

 

People talk highly of these stands. Anyone know, in an engineering sense, what they do? I can see getting off the floor some doing something as the floor is an acoustic (reflective)surface. The bottom of the speaker itself is like 1 1/2" MDF and is no sort of resonator. Lurking the forum here i see people putting the high end stuff on granite slabs which makes sense. Part of where I was going with my ballast.

[Richard Vandersteen]

14 hours ago, arni said:

Found it. Thanks so much. and the answer was just a coule posts up to.

 

One of my speakers looks like the one in the video. But the other was in a train wreck. No sock, no top or bottom, no plates inside the top or bottom, fiberglass sticking out the bottom, no poles, no ribs midway up, huge flake gouge out of the back. nothing there is painted black either.  so it needs a bit of work. The intact one has issues too. It has 10 foot cabinetry. At 10 feet it looks ok-ish. get closer and the hot tape edge banding is pretty glaring...and cheezy. As long as I need to make a new top and bottom for the trauma case I'll replace the top and bottom on both. I have some solid tiger maple that would be nice. And I won't have to joinht it up in wide pieces, I can joint up some pretty frames with nice joinery and then do a rubbed oil finish. It's actually a rather small area that needs finishing.

 

I hate dowels so I'll get my alignments with joinery. Too expensive for a production line but I only have to run 4 sticks through the saw. That caulk doesn't seem to be doing much but sticking things together and keeping stuff from rattling. so it can be properly scraped off and replaced with rope caulk for an anti rattle function. Then stick the top on with velcro or even assembly tape in place of the rope caulk. Again, these are expensive moves for a production operation.

 

Then I need bases. RV is talking about different angles for different ear heights. Sometimes I am sitting, sometimes standing and moving around. Things are always changing. So if they are going to tip they need to tip to different preset angles at a touch. What does that? A rocking chair.  So curved faceted rails/rockers for a base. Instant tilt from one facet to the next. (you heard it here first Richard). Then add some pretty serious ballast. I have 60 lbs on hand for the project and can get more any time.  If I do the facets right they won't fall over. I'll have to do some mocking up in scrap board to check the rail height. I don't think it will be much and my gut tells me it won't be symmetrical either..

 

or am I crazy?

Keep things in perspective!  Listening height and many of these tips and adjustments you will read about on this Fourm only matter when listening is the main event with near 100% attention, like being at the Symphony.  None of this matters when otherwise distracted or being used for background music.  Solid wood has no place near a speaker cabinet so save your tiger maple (beautiful) for an other project.  RV

[arni]

Richard, thanks for the tips!

It seems the poles in the 2's are solid wood. I'll get rid of them and use something else. plastic pipe? OK, joke. Seems the caps and base plate are trim so I don't consider them acoustically active. Well, maybe the base plate but I can just daughter that up and it's where the ballast goes anyway. Very non resonant surface. I was thinking of going black paint down there anyway so it may as well be MDF. Exterior grade MDF is more dense than any interior grade but I only need a small piece.

The wood around here that will interact with the speakers is the floor. Thick solid plank bamboo over short block oak over pine plank sub floor over the house framing. Thick but the framing is weak resulting in a "soft" floor. The walls of the room are hard, nothing on them, but the surfaces of the room are extremely complex. Sound bounces around off everything. I don't really deserve Model 2's . iF they can beat my mystery book shelves I'll keep them, otherwise it's restore and cash out.

When I process music on the computer the software (Diamond Cut)  introduces artifacts. It sort of sounds like angels ringing tiny glass chimes. Can't hear it on speakers but I can in the head phones. So that is the limit of my hearing. Too many years of loud power tools with too little protection.

[arni]

As we say in the motorcycle world after some disaster strikes an undeserving bike, "it'll buff out".

 

 

[arni]

Popped the top off the intact one.  Used the correct tool, which is not a screwdriver. I had wondered why I could see glints of metal under the top when looking at the speaker when sitting down. Turns out it has been resocked before and by one of those home owner types that should not be touching tools. T50 staples that are too long for the guys skill with a hand stapler. So they are sitting up and buckled. Rather than tapping them flat he just gooped on silicone caulk all the thicker. Dowels the wrong size and sitting cocked in there holes. Sock trimmed too close to the staples. if i take it off I doubt i will be able to get it back on. what horrors are under the bottom still wait. On the bright side I found a bunch of 1/2" MDF in the shed and I have a scrap big enough for a bottom if it was used there.

 

 

[GdnrBob]

I hope you didn't pay too much for these speakers.🤨

Bob

[Holmz]

Was it an old Dutch proverb, or Confucianism that say, “Women usually look better with socks and clogs off, but speaker look better with socks on?”

Edited April 25, 2022 by Holmz

[arni]

I'd say any positive dollar amount would be too much. I was going to haul them off for him if he'd give me 50$ (they were in a basement). He valued them at a positive 125$.  But he was a nice guy and they were the closest thing to a decent speaker I had found that I could afford....and they did make noise. We settled on 115$ and he threw in all the stuff from his extremely ill fated attempt at a repair as well as a new top sock he got from Vandersteen. I wanted to give them to the nephew to fix up but they are too big for his room, he is in the middle of getting a double major together in music and engineering, needs to play a lot of soccer, and work AND he discovered girls (at 17, kid will make a great engineer) and has to spend time on the girlfriend. So they ended up back in my shop and I gave him my little Velodynes. I had talked to The vandersteen people (they actually answer the phone and the gal knew the price of those socks right off her head) so I knew what I was in for there,. I've got about 40 years in doing industrial modelmaking (part of the ID thing) so I knew fixing them would be simple enough. Resisting completely restyling them maybe not so easy but if I ever want to sell I better keep paws off that part...mostly. Anyway I sold 350$ worth of old sea kayak stuff the next day so I figure they are free and some new socks too. I have the MDF, hopefully the dowels that came with are the correct diameter, I got better ways to do things (is Richard looking?) than 1/4 crown staples (please don't tell me the dry wall screws are factory work)....some of which are jutting from the fractures.

 

On the intact speaker clear silicone has oozed it's way around the inner radius of the hole in the top. If any dripped on the drivers it could be game over. Anybody want to buy some parts? I have to pull down the sock to see  but I'm sceered. On the troubled (more troubled) child I'll have to scab protective panels over the drivers so no listening until I get a top and bottom on and the poles, wedge strips and one wing in. To do that stuff there is a lot of nasty old stuff to be cleared away, especially the wedge strips and copious goop/drippy glue, etc..

 

Got an amp going and patched my chineseum sub together with the old super glue and baking soda trick. I have the pair of mystery bookshelves and a pair of Minimus-11's all running together so 4 drivers a side.. Lined them all up on the top shelf of a tall wire rack like birds on a wire. Put on LSO plays Jethro Tull and started playing with speaker angles to see if I could at least get some volume throughout the house. To go overboard with the understatement, it just didn't sound good. Granted I've been listening to some pretty fancy systems and comparing my dollah two ninety eight set up isn't fair but still, it wasn't living up to memory. So I put on an ECM recording, Arbos.  Oh My. Multiple nodes around the house where the hair would stand up on my...well never mind but it was pretty impressive. If the model 2's can beat that with even minimal placement I'll be thrilled.

[arni]

11 hours ago, GdnrBob said:

I hope you didn't pay too much for these speakers.🤨

Bob

 

6 hours ago, Holmz said:

Was it an old Dutch proverb, or Confucianism that say, “Women usually look better with socks and clogs off, but speaker look better with socks on?”

oops.

[GdnrBob]

Well, it sounds like a good project in learning speaker building/rebuilding.

B

[arni]

Building a box is simple enough as is repairing one, especially since the geometry has been handd to me. But preserving the resonance of the panels is going to be tricky. I notice as I turn the speaker (either one) on the table they creak. The joints have Broken everywhere. Repairing that without tearing them apart will be interesting. They need to be rock solid and sealed.

Got the sock off the intact one to explore geometry.

 

Discover the posts had been routed the long way, which ecplains the wedge strips. A custom router bit was not made so the cabinet corner has the be squared out.

 

The poles are closely fitted to the wings and pinned with a dowel.

 

But on the remaining wing of the damaged bx the cutout for the dowl is vastly to large. Huh? The Vandersteen posts are .040" oversize from hardware store stuff, but still. A single hammer blow removes the offending wing.

 

The remains of the wedge strip and dowel get milled off...after 2 hours fixing the router which broke itself just sitting on the shelf. Could it be a sign?

 

Then to the back. The larger flakes of broken MDF come off with a chisel.

 

The thing has been resocked at least once with two layers of sock ignored under the connection plate.

 

Also one connector plug has been crushed in. Iy can be pulled back out but the metal has stretched, will never look the same. Any thoght of buying new socks to make pretty vanish. Also cold solder joints found. I'm gonna biwire into bad solder joints? Not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

milling off the the wedge strip and down on the other side reveal the real extent o the damage. i seriously do not want to remove that driver. I fill the big cracks with hot glue to keep my next move, which will be drippy, out of the interior.

 

 

[arni]

Question for the group: Does anyone really care about this project or is it too far off topic? Documentation, even of the larger steps, takes a lot of time and slows things. I cannot snap pics with my phone. If no-one is particularly interested I'll skip it. Thoughts?

 

Also I have a pair of top panels that I guess are for sale. One is brand new from Vandersteen, the other is from the intact speaker and is in good shape. Anyone interested?

[ctsooner]

Guys love this stuff and it's a separate thread.  If they don't like it, they just won't follow it.  Keep on going.

 

[Richard Vandersteen]

Arni, I'm glad you did it so far because you made my point about it not being "pretty" inside.  This came up the other day when someone asked "Why the dowels and socks" after they see your pictures it will be obvious.  I do think this is of limited interest otherwise because most people would not put this much effort into speakers that old and so little worth.  RV

[GdnrBob]

2 hours ago, arni said:

Does anyone really care about this project or is it too far off topic?

I find this stuff very helpful. If you can make a good, detailed post with pics and descriptions, I think it will help others in the future. Though most wouldn't want to tackle such a project, I can see someone using it to repair a speaker with less damage.

Bob

[Holmz]

7 hours ago, arni said:

Question for the group: Does anyone really care about this project or is it too far off topic? Documentation, even of the larger steps, takes a lot of time and slows things. I cannot snap pics with my phone. If no-one is particularly interested I'll skip it. Thoughts?

…

They look pretty rough, but it is interesting.

I have been half tempted to dig into the passive XO and maybe go digital active.
or do it externally and bi/tri-amp it.

One reason I haven’t is that mine look good, and it would likely take me some time to accomplish.
So seeing your efforts are in the vicarious living arena.

[arni]

The damaged backs get some polyester resin worked in to stabilize the fibers, then a thick layer of resin combined with chopped glass fiber. When t has set up the edge gets planed again and the face sanded. I did a deep cut with the sander and i'll fill under the wedge strip when I get there. I hope I am not screwing up the surface resonance but I can only guess.

Then there is the problem of the fractured box seam. There is some sort of hard white stuff in the seam here an there so it cannot be clamped tightly and I can't get glue into it anyway. I tighten it up with clamps as much as it will go and use splines. The splines are just #20 biscuits and not my best ones. They absorb glue and expand to give a very tight fit. Easy to trim with a razor saw. I will be splining the poles top and bottom too.

 

As far as appearance as long as it's all paint grade I could go in and restore the surfaces to their original factory beauty, and better. But I'm not going to bother. Those boxes need to be rock solid and sealed. I'll get them there and walk away. It's beer thirty anyway and I'm tired.