Vanderseen Has A Profound Effect on How I View Audio Now

[Huang]

Guys, just listening to my system and the correctness it presents, combined with all the information exchanged here, has a profound effect on what I do to my system now.

The other night I was listening to a LP kinda loud cause the Treos sound so good, and my wife kind of gave me stink eye. I dutifully turned it down and decided I need to add a headphone setup for the late night sessions. I looked at several reviews and models, one driving criteria was NO FEEDBACK. Several top rated models, which I have no way of auditioning were well received, but many employed feedback. I know feedback has its merits in some circuits, but if the designer has his thinking cap on he can make a good sounding circuit without it. With the inability to hear all the choices out there I set the no feedback rule to refine my selection. I will report back if I chose wisely. 

[GdnrBob]

I would be interested in your findings. as I have little experience with headphones. But, I do want to get a pair/set/one for air travel.

But, if you are using it with your stereo system, the headphones would plug in at the preamp. So, wouldn't the zero feedback, which is caused by the amp not be applicable?

Bob

[bkeske]

These are those times I am pleased to be a divorced bachelor 😁

I have some Grado headphones, but rarely, and I mean very rarely,  use them. To me, no matter what, music in your head vs the room is hard to accept.

Edited August 19, 2022 by bkeske

[Huang]

@GdnrBob the headphone amp will go in the tape loop of the preamp, the applied signal will be the same signal the preamp would see from the phono pre. I have to use a separate rig because ARC chose not to implement a headphone circuit, and I chose a ARC preamp.

[Huang]

@bkeske I prefer the speakers, but I am not a divorced bachelor and at this point don't want to be 🙂 

[Holmz]

7 hours ago, Huang said:

Guys, just listening to my system and the correctness it presents, combined with all the information exchanged here, has a profound effect on what I do to my system now.

The other night I was listening to a LP kinda loud cause the Treos sound so good, and my wife kind of gave me stink eye. I dutifully turned it down and decided I need to add a headphone setup for the late night sessions. I looked at several reviews and models, one driving criteria was NO FEEDBACK. Several top rated models, which I have no way of auditioning were well received, but many employed feedback. I know feedback has its merits in some circuits, but if the designer has his thinking cap on he can make a good sounding circuit without it. With the inability to hear all the choices out there I set the no feedback rule to refine my selection. I will report back if I chose wisely. 

What does ^that^ even mean?

I would have thought that you pick out a head phone first, and then an amp to drive it.
I mostly use the Etymotics IEMs now.

The Dan Clarke head phones look interesting and are low distortion, and way back I had the Stax for a brief time.

Or does one get the headphone based on amp?
It seems like it is a “back to front” method.

 

But sometimes just the look from the other half, can drive drive a person to do things.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Holmz

[bkeske]

2 hours ago, Huang said:

@bkeske I prefer the speakers, but I am not a divorced bachelor and at this point don't want to be 🙂 

Ha! Good for you man. Was just kidding…..I think….🤔

[Huang]

52 minutes ago, bkeske said:

Ha! Good for you man. Was just kidding…..I think….🤔

it's all in good fun, and some days....

[Richard Vandersteen]

7 hours ago, GdnrBob said:

I would be interested in your findings. as I have little experience with headphones. But, I do want to get a pair/set/one for air travel.

But, if you are using it with your stereo system, the headphones would plug in at the preamp. So, wouldn't the zero feedback, which is caused by the amp not be applicable?

Bob

 

6 hours ago, bkeske said:

These are those times I am pleased to be a divorced bachelor 😁

I have some Grado headphones, but rarely, and I mean very rarely,  use them. To me, no matter what, music in your head vs the room is hard to accept.

I am with you on the "in head music" as it is so unnatural, I would rather be without!  Easy for me to say when Eneke never says anything about loud music but then I need my ears.  RV

[ctsooner]

I'm very active in the portable/headphone community.  I'm actually in the process of selling one of my sets of can's that I no longer need/use.  If you want to talk about this, feel free to reach out to me. I have been able to audition many of the amps and headphones/IEM's on the market.  It will be very difficult to find a 'neutral' set as that community often buys more than one and all sound differently.  There are some circuits that try to eliminate the 'in head music'.  I'm not sure they sound that much better.  You are at the mercy of the physics of listening that way.  I have no choice as I often want to listen in bed at night and teh wife will be watching her TV shows.  

[Stringreen]

I just came back from Vienna and will caution all,  that the drone of those engines wipe out anything resembling high end sound.  The music is what is important so I would guess any ok closed back/anti noise earphone would be fine for air travel.  I have a Burmeister stereo system in my car and say the same for those that are thinking of "updating" the car stereo.

[ctsooner]

I use a pair of Empire Ears Odin's.  Jack Vang and his dad make to me, the best group of IEM's available.  I use them on the plane all the time, unless I'm using my phone and then it's the AirPods Plus which are outstanding for blocking noise.  I use a top A&K DAP as I've said and I rarely have issues with plane noise. It's there of course, but if you get teh Customs (made specifically for each of your ears), you won't miss the noise canceling (ANC/active noise cancellation) of the AirPods.  It's what it is, but as we all say, it's about the music and I do notice the better quality of my IEM's,e even in the air.  https://empireears.com/collections/universal/products/odin

[GdnrBob]

I wonder...

Do they make an headset/earbud that can counteract hearing loss at the high frequencies?

I guess it would be akin to DSP, but if they can make earbuds to fit your individual ear, then why not make one that compensates for vagaries of hearing?

I would buy a pair just to see what I am missing these days.

B

[Richard Vandersteen]

That much boost in the high frequencies would sound very unnatural because we sub consciously reference to the piano we heard yesterday.  Worse, that much boost would take away what hearing is left very quickly.  RV 

[Holmz]

6 hours ago, GdnrBob said:

I wonder...

Do they make an headset/earbud that can counteract hearing loss at the high frequencies?

I guess it would be akin to DSP, but if they can make earbuds to fit your individual ear, then why not make one that compensates for vagaries of hearing?

I would buy a pair just to see what I am missing these days.

B

 

I take the opposite track, and use etymotic IEMs (Without anything one the cord) or their noise blockers when using a chainsaw, power saw, lawn mower, etc.

 

If you want to see what you are missing in the high freqs… just demo some Klipsch, tanderbergs, or other bright speakers… and report back on how much better they sound 🥲

Edited August 21, 2022 by Holmz

[Stringreen]

I have Grado 10E headphones plugged into a Sony Walkman digital player.   It brings me the music although not on airplanes

[Stringreen]

1 minute ago, Stringreen said:

I have Grado 10E headphones plugged into a Sony Walkman digital player.   It brings me the music although not on airplanes..My Entymotics are less good and less comfortable.

[GdnrBob]

Oh well, I guess the hearing diminished people of the world will have to wait a few more centuries to get a cure.

Thankfully, I can hear enough to enjoy what I am listening to, so I have that.😁

Bob

[Holmz]

Luckily we hear what we want to hear, most of the time.

[ctsooner]

3 minutes ago, Holmz said:

Luckily we hear what we want to hear, most of the time.

Too often I hear what I don’t want to. Just saying lol 

 

Bob, feel free to reach out about IEM’s. My friend who designs the Empire Ears gear used to make the drivers for a Knowles. They make hearing aids. 

[Holmz]

Well if we have heard the song before, we can identify it even in the presence of a lot of background noise.

On a plane the background noise is pretty high, and many vehicles are much the same.
I usually use IEMs because they are small and cheap, and I usually go through 1-2 sets/year as they either get lost or damaged.
The current set has lost both the ear sleeves, so I need to find some of those before the next trip.

[Oregon]

What attracted me to the 2Ce's was an experience from the middle 80's when I lived in Southern California. At the time I belonged to an informal audio "club" which typically met at the members homes within the greater Southern California region. The membership was quite eclectic, including an audio engineer from Disney Studios, also, a certain amateur speaker designer by the name of Albert Von Scheikert. He would drag his garage-built enclosure-less rig around with him from venue to venue. His  home made rig sounded so much better than anything I had heard in any of the SoCal high-end stores at the time. The absence of that smearing front baffle was remarkable. I mused about building my own minimum front baffle speakers for decades...

Fast forward 35yrs; discover Vandersteen 2Ce's, bought 'em without ever hearing the things. They have delighted from Day One. Highly recommended.

[Stringreen]

On 8/21/2022 at 3:05 PM, GdnrBob said:

Oh well, I guess the hearing diminished people of the world will have to wait a few more centuries to get a cure.

Thankfully, I can hear enough to enjoy what I am listening to, so I have that.😁

Bob

we use what we can.....Im a musician and don't know any musician that has good hearing.   Also re: airplane listening....   I can hear the drone of the jets through my body.   I suspect a good percentage of my hearing is done this way.   There is a tactical pleasant vibration when I play in tune, and a shutter even  without my hearing aids.

[Huang]

19 hours ago, Stringreen said:

we use what we can.....Im a musician and don't know any musician that has good hearing.   Also re: airplane listening....   I can hear the drone of the jets through my body.   I suspect a good percentage of my hearing is done this way.   There is a tactical pleasant vibration when I play in tune, and a shutter even  without my hearing aids.

Good point Stringreen. That tactical pleasant vibration/shudder is what listening to music is all about. For me when something sounds right/good I feel it. I do think some of that resides in how the music is presented... which is one of the reasons we are all in this forum. 

[Huang]

On 8/19/2022 at 9:38 AM, Huang said:

Guys, just listening to my system and the correctness it presents, combined with all the information exchanged here, has a profound effect on what I do to my system now.

The other night I was listening to a LP kinda loud cause the Treos sound so good, and my wife kind of gave me stink eye. I dutifully turned it down and decided I need to add a headphone setup for the late night sessions. I looked at several reviews and models, one driving criteria was NO FEEDBACK. Several top rated models, which I have no way of auditioning were well received, but many employed feedback. I know feedback has its merits in some circuits, but if the designer has his thinking cap on he can make a good sounding circuit without it. With the inability to hear all the choices out there I set the no feedback rule to refine my selection. I will report back if I chose wisely. 

The reason I started this thread was the need to add a headphone  setup for late night listening. That mission was accomplished while not a pleasing as listening through my Treos it is pleasant  go off into the music + I can listen to my LPs via headphones now. 

Richard, you have said you hate headphones, and since you make the world's best speakers and don't get stink eye when you listen late you have no need. I would ask that in your upcoming preamp if it is not sonically detrimental that you include a passthrough or tape loop.