Upgrade to CT?

[GdnrBob]

I have the opportunity to upgrade my Treo's to Treo CT. 

My question:

Is the sound presentation noticeably improved?

-Yes, I know what the answer should be, but wanted some unvarnished opinions from any that have compared or upgraded from the  former to the latter.

Bob

[nrenter]

Since I’ve never heard the Treos and Treo CTs side by side, I can’t comment on the sound presentation. I have no doubt the CT version is better. But is it worth the extra cost and hassle? If the spend was a non-issue, the deal would already be done. If you didn’t upgrade your speakers, but were committed to spend that money on your system, what is your alternative upgrade? 
 

 

[ctsooner]

If its a brand new model, I’d say it’s going to be noticeable. How much is so hard to say. Too many variables.  Quatro’s is the true upgrade even with you subs. Quatro with the sub3 takes Quatro to a new level too. 

[GdnrBob]

6 hours ago, ctsooner said:

If its a brand new model, I’d say it’s going to be noticeable. How much is so hard to say. Too many variables.  Quatro’s is the true upgrade even with you subs. Quatro with the sub3 takes Quatro to a new level too. 

Peter, as you and I know, my current speakers are the ones you sold me. Which I love dearly. My biggest concern is the bit of high end hearing loss in my left ear. I know it is there, but I also know I can differentiate differences-like when we auditioned the CAD unit, so perhaps I don't need to learn sign language.☺️

Given that I have equipment that can resolve the most from my current Treo's, I think the CT's should be a significant upgrade.

I reached out to John Rutan, and even he thinks I will hear the difference. So, I think I will buy them. I just needed a bit of backup.😕

Seller is away for a day or two. I hope to seal the deal soon.

Bob

[Holmz]

10 hours ago, ctsooner said:

If its a brand new model, I’d say it’s going to be noticeable. How much is so hard to say. Too many variables.  Quatro’s is the true upgrade even with you subs. Quatro with the sub3 takes Quatro to a new level too. 

If the only thing that is changed is the carbon tweeter then it is 1 variable.

Assuming that the tweeter goes down to 3kHz, then even if one’s hearing is largely shot in the high frequencies, there is still a lot of room between 3k and whatever…
So it should have less distortion, if the carbon tweeter is mostly acting as a stiffer cone and controlling breakup modes.

But those modes happen higher, so if one’s hearing is shot up there, then the only way they would be heard might be in IMD…
(dunno… ?)

 

I cannot imagine an easier speaker to do a blind test on, than the same exact one with only the tweeter changed. 
But I would suggest that @GdnrBobawait the Class-D amps… If their low distortion is not really enjoyed, then a lower distortion driver might also be not enjoyable.
??

[Richard Vandersteen]

21 minutes ago, Holmz said:

If the only thing that is changed is the carbon tweeter then it is 1 variable.

Assuming that the tweeter goes down to 3kHz, then even if one’s hearing is largely shot in the high frequencies, there is still a lot of room between 3k and whatever…
So it should have less distortion, if the carbon tweeter is mostly acting as a stiffer cone and controlling breakup modes.

But those modes happen higher, so if one’s hearing is shot up there, then the only way they would be heard might be in IMD…
(dunno… ?)

 

I cannot imagine an easier speaker to do a blind test on, than the same exact one with only the tweeter changed. 
But I would suggest that @GdnrBobawait the Class-D amps… If their low distortion is not really enjoyed, then a lower distortion driver might also be not enjoyable.
??

The changes between the Treo and Treo CT are more than the addition of the Carbon tweeter.  In Vandersteen speakers over the years if the tweeter was improved everything below needs to be tweaked (changed) or the tweeter change will stick out like a sore thumb.  If the speaker is to be balanced everything needs to be brought up together.  In the Treo CT's case a lot was massaged so most people think it was an across-the-board improvement.  RV

[GdnrBob]

Hmmm, 

Since I still have the non-CT Treo's, I really should try to do a comparison.

If things go according to plan, I will be picking up the Treo CT's this weekend.

B

[ctsooner]

Thanks for sharing Richard. The Quatro’s for my ears and money, are the sweet spot in your line. 

[GdnrBob]

8 hours ago, ctsooner said:

Thanks for sharing Richard. The Quatro’s for my ears and money, are the sweet spot in your line. 

Ah yes, Mr. Rutan and Mr. V. have said this to me more than once.

Unfortunately, my room can only handle the Treo's. The extra depth of the Quatro's would impinge on the Steinway B, and my significant other would be rather put out if he couldn't move the bench back.😒

Bob

[Steve Edwards]

17 hours ago, GdnrBob said:

my significant other would be rather put out if he couldn't move the bench back.😒

maybe a smaller bench?  

[GdnrBob]

I'l

5 hours ago, Steve Edwards said:

maybe a smaller bench?  

I'll tell him you said that.😁Though I think he won't be amused.

B

[GdnrBob]

I hope to pick up the CT's tomorrow.

Fingers crossed.

B

[Stringreen]

try hearing aids ....may be your answer.

[ctsooner]

Let’s us know Bob. Congratulations 

[GdnrBob]

Well, it took 7 hours of driving, but the CT's are in the house. 

Time for some scotch, so hook up is tomorrow.

B

[bkeske]

Congrats Bob! Don’t let the scotch impair your listening 😁

[GdnrBob]

Actually, it seems to help it.

I have much to do tomorrow. In addition to hooking up the new Treo's, I want to install the Atma Class D amps (finally) in the upstairs system.- I should point out that my monoblocks are positioned up high near the VLR's, so it takes a bit of acrobatics to get everything hooked up without causing an avalanche of stereo equipment. Hence, my delay.

Bob

[TomicTime]

a snort of Talisker has been known to improve my sonic world…. enjoy them in good health Bob !

[Holmz]

Lagavulin is not bad.

Threatening to trade in the SO for a moving dolly  usually doesn’t go well when I’ve tried it.
(YMMV)

[ctsooner]

Just learning to drink dark alcohol. 

[bkeske]

Gave it all up over 25 years go, including good scotch. I learned too well 😁

[GdnrBob]

The Balvenie got a bit too pricey, so I found a good sub. So, I switched to Aberfeldy. 

In any case, I got the Treo CT's hooked up and the Atma Class D's, too.

Things sound different, but overall good, so far. But, I will let everything burn in before making judgements.

Though, I do think I need to have Johnny and Samir over to recalibrate everything. I am also going to look at the Treo manual again and make sure I have them set up properly.

Bob

 

[Patrick D]

On 11/1/2022 at 7:48 PM, Richard Vandersteen said:

The changes between the Treo and Treo CT are more than the addition of the Carbon tweeter.  In Vandersteen speakers over the years if the tweeter was improved everything below needs to be tweaked (changed) or the tweeter change will stick out like a sore thumb.  If the speaker is to be balanced everything needs to be brought up together.  In the Treo CT's case a lot was massaged so most people think it was an across-the-board improvement.  RV

RICHARD, may I ask what the frequency range is of the carbon tweeter? Above 3000hz? Or? My hearing is good to about 12,000hz now. For me the beauty of most music lies in the midrange, but I am sure (or guessing) that though it's a tweeter, the CT overlaps well into the midrange and the midrange benefits, yes? THANKS

Edited November 9, 2022 by Patrick D

[Patrick D]

18 minutes ago, Patrick D said:

RICHARD, may I ask what the frequency range is of the carbon tweeter? Above 3000hz? Or? My hearing is good to about 12,000hz now. For me the beauty of most music lies in the midrange, but I am sure (or guessing) that though it's a tweeter, the CT overlaps well into the midrange and the midrange benefits, yes? THANKS

I am currently using 2CE Signature IIIs and love them (and they will rise to the occasion with front end improvements)  but I am looking towards the next upgrade, with a finite budget.

Debating on the Treo CT next, or upgrading my preamp/DAC (can't do both this year). Now I am thinking the bigger improvement will come from moving up to the Treo CTs. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Patrick D

[TomicTime]

Treo CT for sure - given competent low negative feedback electronics, always work the transducers first. Much as i love tge model 2 and they are capable of much - the Treo and in particular the CT are amazing. The extra $ available to RV allows a much lower noisefloor cabinet ( cabinet within a cabinet ) to allow better drivers to shine I think you will also find the Treo to be fantastic at lower volumes than what you may need w 2’s.

Just my two cents…..