First wall reflection.

[ctsooner]

So I went up and measured.  It's exactly 22' long.  It's 18.5' wide at the staircase wall to the opposite wall.  It's 15.5' wide at the railing that the right hand speaker hugs.  It's 13.5' wide about a foot behind the listening chair. 

[grue2cesig2]

ah ok.  i wondered if you had tried it setup the speakers on the opposite wall from where they are now.  in other words on the wall behind your chair?  it sounds like that's a 13.5ft wall which would give you just about enough space to sit 10ft away from speakers towards the corners, 10ft wide apart from each other.  the open space behind you, in the new orientation might not need any diffusion behind you. and the two side walls from the speakers with 1st reflection panels would be more at moving the sound more effectively to the listening position. more like a traditional 4 wall rectangular room. ?

[ctsooner]

That makes sense but the wife likes this set up. We have a small window on the opposite wall that the tv would block. I may do that though. I could set up a reading area where the system is now and it would be very open. Thanks. 

[Steve Edwards]

Food for thought  ........

[BKDad]

I'm not big on telling anybody what to do, about much of anything really.  After all, just what do I know?

But, I ran across this tonight and thought you guys might find it of interest:

https://www.hifinews.com/content/room-treatments

Not entirely new, but a lot of what he says echoes (har, har) my own experiences.  I've approached some aspects just a bit differently than he has, but those I'll keep to myself.

[ctsooner]

Great share BK. Thanks so much. 

[BKDad]

Nah.  Nobody really cares.  But, it was very nice of you to favorably comment.  😛

One of the great things about a hobby like home audio is that, aside from folks who make their livelihood in the business, it doesn't really matter what anybody thinks.  It's free interpretive entertainment!

I do believe that giving everybody access to as much objective science based background as possible is a good thing.  If they disagree, fine.  But, at least they have a choice.

[GdnrBob]

@BKDad,

Quote

I do believe that giving everybody access to as much objective science based background as possible is a good thing.  If they disagree, fine.  But, at least they have a choice.

Your sentiment seems to echo many Vandersteen owners.

My time on Audiogon showed Vandy owners to be the most open, non-judgmental people.  

It makes me wonder if our hearing abilities might be connected with our personalities?

Bob`

[BKDad]

That's a really good question I've wondered about myself.

Perhaps people who can appreciate the value of time alignment in the basic tones and their harmonics have a different sort of brain.   My wife thinks I do, but she never said anything it having to do with loudspeakers.  🤪

Somebody should do a nice graduate thesis on the topic.

[ctsooner]

Actually the majority of folks on this board do care.  I love reading about or talking about things are aren't what I'm thinking about or feel differently about.

[grue2cesig2]

that's a great hifinews article!

bob - your hearing abilities comment jogged a memory i had when i worked in the hifi shop.  i was driving with the owner, can't remember why, but he asked if someone could give him a ride out of town (1.5hr drive). we listened to my car stereo which was all a/d/s/ components (we sold that). i told him that once when i took a 2hr ride in my car, about 1 hour into it the whole stereo system suddenly sounded on a whole different level.  i told him i though maybe it was b/c everything was "hot" from running for an hour at higher volumes and things were loose and working.  and he said back to me, yes that makes a difference but don't forget this - and he pointed to his head.  he said you can mentally get in a frame of mind and just everything sounds better b/c you're in that frame of mind or "happy place".  every time i've sat and listened for an hour or 2 or more, i remember that. i think things just sound better after a while and yeah i think warmed up and loose or more responsive is maybe a better term. but i think that i'm more in sync or in a different more relaxed frame of mind and focused on hearing rather than other senses.

i've done track days at the local race track and after the first couple of sessions, i get into a zone where it's just me - the track - and long straits become compressed like you zoom in, and i feel in sync with my car.  so there's probably a lot too that frame of mind thing!  it's like time doesn't matter.

Edited April 7, 2021 by grue2cesig2

[TomicTime]

it’s called in flow......seek it out by any means possible, it is a thing of beauty...

[TomicTime]

6 hours ago, BKDad said:

That's a really good question I've wondered about myself.

Perhaps people who can appreciate the value of time alignment in the basic tones and their harmonics have a different sort of brain.   My wife thinks I do, but she never said anything it having to do with loudspeakers.  🤪

Somebody should do a nice graduate thesis on the topic.

actually Richard and I have had that conversation..the gist is people must hear differently and some are wired to “ value “ time and phase information more than other attributes.... some people are pitch agnostic while others are micropitch sensitive....

 

jim

[GdnrBob]

16 hours ago, TomicTime said:

actually Richard and I have had that conversation..the gist is people must hear differently and some are wired to “ value “ time and phase information more than other attributes.... some people are pitch agnostic while others are micropitch sensitive....

Hmm, reminds me of how people with Pitch Perfect hearing suffer from listening to anything off-key.

I agree with @BKDad , it would make a good Thesis.😊

Bob- Listening with one ear, as the other is clogged due to Allergies.

[grue2cesig2]

ah, the psychology of flow!  well that's it then. cool that it's a real thing that has been studied by knowledgeable people.  the mysteries of the brain!

my right ear is suffering from something. it affects spatial location of some sounds.  i don't know exactly when or how it happened, but i heard it since i got the vandy's 8 or 9 years ago. that was the first time i re-entered having a setup.  there's a slight "full" feeling or pressure in it. it is frequency specific, but i also have what's known as a cookie bite in both ears where a certain freq will drop 10db or 20db i can barely hear it.  in my listening though it's not as noticeable because sounds sound like they sound to me.  it's just that darned new thing thats in my right ear that sucks.  but i've been getting used it and i can still hit that zone or flow.

[ctsooner]

Bob, that's interesting.  I I'm anything but pitch perfect, but I can't listen to a speaker that isn't pretty much pitch perfect.  It's one reason I have difficulty at times with IEMs and much of personal audio that's colored.  There are some products there that I can enjoy regularly when out and about or when I can't have the main's on.

[Bill]

Owens Corning 703 all day long.  You can wrap it in decorative fabric or fabric prints.  

[Steve Edwards]

On 4/6/2021 at 7:54 PM, grue2cesig2 said:

he pointed to his head.  he said you can mentally get in a frame of mind and just everything sounds better b/c you're in that frame of mind or "happy place".  every time i've sat and listened for an hour or 2 or more, i remember that.

There is so much talk about component and cable "break-in", but I believe our ears (or brains) behave in a similar manner.  I notice it almost every time I listen to my system.   Due to the decreasing diameter of the circle that a stylus navigates as it travels through the grooves, it is said (by folks that know a lot more about it than I) that the sound of a record is best at the beginning of the side and decreases as the arm / cartridge work their way toward the center.

I find the opposite.  I suspect pressing quality is one factor, but on many of my records, particularly the first one I listen to that day, I don't really start zoning in until the second or third song.  For years, I've referred to it as LOR (level of receptivity).  When it's high, everything sounds more defined, fuller and more present.  And, as others have said, closing your eyes eliminates the visual distractions, allowing our brains to more fully process the sounds we're hearing.  

"God, how I love it so"

                  General George S Patton

[ctsooner]

That's waht all the RIAA curves etc are that are built into many phono stages I guess.  It's simple physics I think.  

[Bill]

1 hour ago, Steve Edwards said:

There is so much talk about component and cable "break-in", but I believe our ears (or brains) behave in a similar manner.  I notice it almost every time I listen to my system.   Due to the decreasing diameter of the circle that a stylus navigates as it travels through the grooves, it is said (by folks that know a lot more about it than I) that the sound of a record is best at the beginning of the side and decreases as the arm / cartridge work their way toward the center.

I find the opposite.  I suspect pressing quality is one factor, but on many of my records, particularly the first one I listen to that day, I don't really start zoning in until the second or third song.  For years, I've referred to it as LOR (level of receptivity).  When it's high, everything sounds more defined, fuller and more present.  And, as others have said, closing your eyes eliminates the visual distractions, allowing our brains to more fully process the sounds we're hearing.  

"God, how I love it so"

                  General George S Patton

LOR, I like it!

PS.  There's some interesting physics behind the the track position argument, but if you've got your anti-skate set correctly you should be good.  Note if you buy a used record where the anti-skate was set wrong one channel may be worn out.  Dear god, do I have few of those.

I think the RIAA curves are more about equalizing frequencies that get distorted at the boundaries.

[Stringreen]

My room although large is not good for sound.   A local Vandersteen store owner (now out of business)  told me the cause is that the ceilings are 16 feet high with lots of almost floor to ceiling  windows.   Looks great,  but.... John Rutan told me to try some things, none have made much difference.   When I played with the Vandertones, Richard advised me to turn down that frequency range altogether.