Listening Distance

[Gsal]

Hello all.

I am just curious as to how other Vandersteen owners have their system set up particularly in regard to the distance from the speakers to the listening position given the distance between the speakers. As I understand it the general rule of thumb is for the listening position to be 1.2X the distance between the speakers. In my room, however, (after much experimentation) I have found that a more distant listening position provides a more convincing soundstage illusion  with greater depth.

I'd appreciate it if others could "sound in" on their configurations.

Thank you.

[GdnrBob]

I have mine around 8 feet apart, but are at the mid point of 2 rooms (LR and DR). Listening point is about 10 feet from the speakers.

I can't move them much beyond toe-in, unfortunately, but have no issue with the sound produced.

B

[Richard Vandersteen]

2 hours ago, Gsal said:

Hello all.

I am just curious as to how other Vandersteen owners have their system set up particularly in regard to the distance from the speakers to the listening position given the distance between the speakers. As I understand it the general rule of thumb is for the listening position to be 1.2X the distance between the speakers. In my room, however, (after much experimentation) I have found that a more distant listening position provides a more convincing soundstage illusion  with greater depth.

I'd appreciate it if others could "sound in" on their configurations.

Thank you.

There are no recommended positions in any room (the manual procedure is only a starting point) as each room is different even if the dimensions are the same.  You have already done what I seldom can accomplish over 45 years "THE EXPERIMENT" as it is the only way to having a system that sounds better than the sum of its parts!  This is not a function of the speaker design but the room as most people discover all properly designed speakers will end up in the same position (bi/di-polar excepted)  for any given listening position.  Trying AALL domestically accepted locations is a free way to huge improvements in sound sometimes which many never discover because they don't do the work and find that "Best" location.  RV

[TomicTime]

Reality always messes with theory….. but use the theoretical starting point, and do the work…. 

IF you do achieve nirvana….document it with key distances AND be careful that the W in WAF doesn’t MOVE your listening chair…… 

[Oregon]

Just getting my rig back online after a two month hiatus. I thought to investigate Jim Smith's technique utilizing his 83% method for the listening chair to loudspeaker relationship. My previous listening chair to loudspeaker relationship worked out to 83%. I settled on the previous location using my ears.

Jim's method is to regard the distance between tweeters as "X", the distance from the tweeters to your ears as "Y". Thus, X/Y = 83% (.83).

Give it a try, it's free and it works.

Cody

[Gsal]

2 minutes ago, Oregon said:

Just getting my rig back online after a two month hiatus. I thought to investigate Jim Smith's technique utilizing his 83% method for the listening chair to loudspeaker relationship. My previous listening chair to loudspeaker relationship worked out to 83%. I settled on the previous location using my ears.

Jim's method is to regard the distance between tweeters as "X", the distance from the tweeters to your ears as "Y". Thus, X/Y = 83% (.83).

Give it a try, it's free and it works.

Cody

I have tried that Cody...and many others. I still find a more distant (.66) listening position to provide me a more "realistic" listening experience. Go figure.

[Gsal]

2 hours ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

There are no recommended positions in any room (the manual procedure is only a starting point) as each room is different even if the dimensions are the same.  You have already done what I seldom can accomplish over 45 years "THE EXPERIMENT" as it is the only way to having a system that sounds better than the sum of its parts!  This is not a function of the speaker design but the room as most people discover all properly designed speakers will end up in the same position (bi/di-polar excepted)  for any given listening position.  Trying AALL domestically accepted locations is a free way to huge improvements in sound sometimes which many never discover because they don't do the work and find that "Best" location.  RV

Thanks RV. I could go on and on about this subject ( I find it fascinating ) but I'll just say this based on MY experience in MY dedicated room. Speakers centers are 93" apart. About 24" out from the side walls and something less than 48" out from the front. Very slight toe-in.  I had been listening at 112" but after visiting the CAF I longed for a more expansive and deep soundstage and at the show I found that I was often listening further back than I normally would.

So, I moved my listening position back to 140" and found it more to my liking. I realize that I am introducing more of the room effects than one might get with near-field listening but damn if it doesn't sound more like a real performance is taking place at the end of my room. This perplexes me as one would think that the soundstage is created in the mixing room during recording, hence, near-field listening SHOULD realize a more exact replica of the recording without room interference.

 

[Richard Vandersteen]

16 minutes ago, Gsal said:

Thanks RV. I could go on and on about this subject ( I find it fascinating ) but I'll just say this based on MY experience in MY dedicated room. Speakers centers are 93" apart. About 24" out from the side walls and something less than 48" out from the front. Very slight toe-in.  I had been listening at 112" but after visiting the CAF I longed for a more expansive and deep soundstage and at the show I found that I was often listening further back than I normally would.

So, I moved my listening position back to 140" and found it more to my liking. I realize that I am introducing more of the room effects than one might get with near-field listening but damn if it doesn't sound more like a real performance is taking place at the end of my room. This perplexes me as one would think that the soundstage is created in the mixing room during recording, hence, near-field listening SHOULD realize a more exact replica of the recording without room interference.

 

It is a blend of the room (the ear/brain needs the boundaries defined) and the mix (the better sound guys use some kind of tricks for space) but this is NOT standardized so what you experienced is mostly a coincidence and will change from recording to recording.  Best solution is to place your speakers and listening position without prejudice by experimentation.  RV 

[Richard Vandersteen]

43 minutes ago, Gsal said:

I have tried that Cody...and many others. I still find a more distant (.66) listening position to provide me a more "realistic" listening experience. Go figure.

Don't forget we all have different taste and probably use different music.  If you stand back and observe all the books, articles and instruction manuals (ours included) you will understand there is no formula only a happy ending after a lot of experimentation.  After all of this one has discovered what works for him or her in that specific room, period!  RV

[Sbank]

Painter's tape is your friend!

[ctsooner]

Rutan setup my speakers to be in the corners of the room.  They are a full 16’ apart and i only sit about 10’ from the speakers as that’s the best i can do in the room.  I can’t move the speakers (as most know i have MS), so this is where I’m at in the equation. They sound great, but I would love to bring them in much closer together someday to play with the way i had the Treo’s set up before Bob took them from my home ;).   They were singing that day he got them.  

I personally am going to wait to get Richard’s preamp in the system and let it cook.  Then I’ll be able to possibly get someone over to help me set them up.  Then I’ll need to redo the bass once i get the best position.  it will be well worth it.  I may even pay to have Samir come up as he’s incredible setting things up.

[TomicTime]

There is IMO an excellent reference LP without a lot of trickery ( multi track studio ) that i use as a reference…. Opus 3 - Depth of Image…i find it super valuable…

I think it is also good to be introspective about what we like…. i’ve always placed a priority on pinpoint, big, deep yet non fatigue presentation f the music…. just one reason WHY i love my Vandersteen gear…

But likely, we all have different rooms, ears and priorities…. which is cool.

[ctsooner]

Jim, it that available on Tidal or even digitally?  If so, have you heard it and does it do similar?  (Posted in the Caribbean, on the way to the Bahama’s, while laying in my red hammock on the balcony.  Listening to my very high end portable gear drinking a Don Julio margarita.  First real vacation with my wife in about 5 years.).  

 

Carry on folks… 🙂 

[TomicTime]

Pete - well deserved !!!! good on ya - enjoy.

I don’t believe the Opus 3 is available on digital.

I would try this from 2L ( really anything from them )…. Especially the 2 channel stuff on Vandys….

best to you.

PS - i am not looking for a format war flame here, note 2L often release in 5 or so formats, so you can listen , compare and… enjoy…

Jim

[BKDad]

The Opus 3 recording is available on CD from a number of sources.  I think I bought mine from Amazon, but a quick Google search showed lots of others.  Diffusion panel not normally included, however.

They remastered it a year or two ago and added some tracks, too.

[Holmz]

6 hours ago, ctsooner said:

….  Then I’ll be able to possibly get someone over to help me set them up…..

If I am in the states in Jan/Feb I see if the preamp has arrived and cooked.

[Gsal]

My musical tastes are extremely wide ranging but I do enjoy well recorded Jazz trios from yesteryear. One reference I often use is the Bill Evans Trio. Night and Day from Everybody Loves Bill Evans. The opening drum solo speaks volumes about how well your system can recreate a well recorded drum kit and the room in which it was recorded.

[SAGNI]

1 hour ago, Gsal said:

My musical tastes are extremely wide ranging but I do enjoy well recorded Jazz trios from yesteryear. One reference I often use is the Bill Evans Trio. Night and Day from Everybody Loves Bill Evans. The opening drum solo speaks volumes about how well your system can recreate a well recorded drum kit and the room in which it was recorded.

Totally agree! Just listened to that particular track and picked up on very cool spatial cues of the room: the drum kit is off to the left, pocketed in the deep corner of the room,  and Evans’ piano is to the right, more forward in the room while the bass anchors the trio. An amazing recording for sure! 

[TomicTime]

@BKDad thanks - i learn stuff here every day 🙂 a great forum for sure !
 

This is screen shot from Discogs….

[Oregon]

50 minutes ago, TomicTime said:

@BKDad  I learn stuff here every day 🙂
 

Indeed !

[Daverz]

I currently have my cloth Quatros in an 8 foot (2.44 m) equilateral triangle with the listening position and each speaker at least a meter from any walls.   All measurements from the top front center of each speaker. 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Daverz

[ctsooner]

Thanks guys for sharing the Opus 3 CD.  I remember listening to that record at my old shop in the 90’s.  I’m sure that was it.  I’ve seen it at most shops.  I may spring for it once i get back.  🙂

[TomicTime]

FWIW my Treo are at 84%

[Richard Vandersteen]

My XTRM's are 18 feet apart and my listening chair is 19 1/2, FWIW.  RV

[stratocaster]

3 minutes ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

My XTRM's are 18 feet apart and my listening chair is 19 1/2, FWIW.  RV

Wow.. that’s far…