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M5hpb capacitor change


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Onto my 8th year with the 7 so decided to change 9v battery in the high pass crossover box.  The sonic lift was remarkable despite the fact that the battery was not supposed to be depleted yet.  I then turned my attention to the four .033 uf caps.  Has anyone tried replacing them?  Is Relcap TFT or even Vcap worth a try?

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The M7-HPB caps are Teflon/Tin film and foil wound with oil!  Good luck finding a better sounding cap as I have not been able to.  The reason for improved sound is likely to be the cleaning action of removal and returning  them to the system.  We have seen the M7-HPB come in at 14 years still having full voltage.  These are so transparent you probably missed them, LOL. 

RV

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this is a good reminder to break connections, clean and reassemble now and then !

9 hours ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

It would make be better but you should wait and get the M7-HPB as there are many other advantages other than the Teflon caps.  Put the cost of 8 new caps into a cookie jar and add to it until you can get the M7-HPB because you are starving your SEVENS.

RV

in fact i ran the 7 filter boxes with my 5a for several years…planning ahead to the 7’s….

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On 7/28/2021 at 6:43 PM, ctsooner said:

If I didn't have the crossover built into my amps, I'd try and get the M7 over the M5.  It's not that much more in the scheme of things. 

This gives me another thought - maybe I should try soldering a cap at my amp’s input, or even preamps input and bypass the external crossover altogether 🤔

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9 minutes ago, ctsooner said:

I personally would just get the crossovers lol. Reinventing what great designers do is most often counter productive. JMHO, but try at ur own risk I guess. 

Point taken but the  “crossover built into your amp” from post above is just a capacitor soldered to your amp input I believe.  It is not battery charged or anything.

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I may be wrong but thought it was much more involved to get it to sound so transparent. Again I’m not an engineer. Would you need one for each channel?  Then you would need to have them match perfectly also I guess. Again just a guess. I do know that the caps Richard sources sound better than what we can get retail based on what he’s said.  Again, have and enjoy is the most important thing.  

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In fact putting caps in the power amp on the input would work and save the devastating sonic penalty of one XLR connection! LOL.   You would calculate the value of the cap needed based on the actual input impedance of the input at 100Hz (not always the same as it is at 1000Hz which is the industry standard to quote input impedance) double that value and buy 8 carefully matched caps.  Put two caps in series on pin#2 and pin #3 of each channel.  No battery needed if you can find some very well regulated voltage that is active all the time (even if the amp is off) within the voltage rating of the newly installed caps and use a 10 meg resistor to go from that point in the circuit to the junction each of the series caps installed.  This by the way is how it is done in our M7-HPA and M5-HPA amplifiers.  Wait 5 weeks (if the caps  were Teflon) and you are good to go.  Did you save any money?  I doubt it.  Does it sound better?  Like I said one XLR connection has been eliminated.  The amazing beneficial difference when comparing amplifiers to our high-pass amplifiers is not because the external high-pass has been eliminated, it is because the unique circuit has been optimized for the job at hand without the stress of driving woofers.   Enjoy the music!

RV      

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another option to creating your own DBS filter by poking around in your amplifier looking for quality power for those 8 caps would be to upgrade to the Kento Filters which have the Lithium batteries and the Teflon caps of the 7 filters but are packaged in the more affordable stainless box of the model 5 filter. For those go thru your Vandy dealer 😉 Bob the 7 filter include Lithium and Teflon caps in a Billet box with carbon fiber cap. 

IF i already had super excellent Vandy filters, i would be working on a weaker link in the chain….. 

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Thanks for sharing guys.  I thought it was much more than just a cap or two.  I remember when Ayre was explaining what they did (Alex was there then), he told me that they used their best teflon caps they use in their reference gear and that everything was matched within very very strict tolerances so both channels sound identical and totally transparent.  

I love the DIY aspect of audio.  I always have.  I used to play with stuff in HS when DIY audio was much bigger than it is now.  I even built a Heathkit preamp back in the day.  I sounded decent.  

I have attached a pic of the inside of the 7 crossover box. As you can see it's pretty extensive, plus he uses a high end silver AQ cable with it in the 7's.  $2626 a pair.  The M5 is only 1470.  I'd love to see you build it as I'm sure you'd be very happy with it.  I'd also be curious how much it would cost to build a pair using Super Caps etc... and see how much it comes out to.

 

IMG_6465_1_HR.jpg

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@tomic, Thanks for responding to my query.

But, just what do the 

On 7/30/2021 at 3:39 PM, TomicTime said:

Lithium and Teflon caps in a Billet box with carbon fiber cap

do in terms of how Sub performs/loudspeaker performs?

I am not an EE, so go easy🙂.

Bob

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13 hours ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

Better parts equal better sound as long as it is in balance with the system.  It would be foolish to buy the M7-HPB for use with a 2Wq and a pair of Model Two's because that money would been better applied to a pair of Treo CT's as one example.

RV  

I've gone down this rabbit hole once and I regretted it.  Bottom line is that I've never heard a properly set up pair of Vandersteen Quatro's, 5's and Kento's NOT sound great with the M5-HPB.  

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Most of the time, the need to “install crossover capacitors into the amp” is in the context of wanting to use an integrated amp with the Quatros or a Vandersteen sub (maybe the Kentos or 7s, but I doubt it). 
 

Although I don’t understand the logic of not including the Vandersteen crossovers as part of a 1m interconnect, (potential) eliminating the need for an extra cable (and, yes, a single XLR or RCA junction) between the pre-amp and the amp. 

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We do make the X-2B which is a cap(s) in a cable but it is not transparent enough for these systems.  It would be very cumbersome to build one with the variable settings, battery bias and switches required.  I learn from these statements how I have not explained much of what we do and why.  The why is for better sound and better value always.  If we have to throw all flexibility and performance goals as side to eliminate one RCA or XLR in our systems,  we are in big trouble!  

RV

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@Richard Vandersteen,

Thanks for posting.

I can understand diminishing returns as far as using the M7 with the Model 2's and 2wq subs, but what about a pair of Treo's with Sub 3's?

 

Also, pardon my ignorance...

But, my comprehension of the M5/M7 crossover is that it compensates for the subwoofer's output, so that it recreates the original signal. ( I believe is is a first order crossover, so 6db down in the crossover, and 6db up in the sub-speaking in general terms).

My question is how/why 'better parts' affect how this is attained and how it affects the resultant sound.

Like I have posted before, I am no EE, but, in my simple mind, it shouldn't make much difference in what part is used, if it does the job.

And, please don't take this to be flame or trolling.

Bob

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28 minutes ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

read about sub-woofers by Dick Hardesty

Yes,  I will- Actually I already read them, but probably forgot more than I remembered...

 

I was unaware that signal would influence higher frequency ranges.

Thanks for the reply.

B

 

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Guys the genius of the suns is that they take the brunt of 100hz and lower (200 on Kēnto). They also recreate the same sound signature of the main amp. As Richard and others have stated, this also allows the other drivers in the ref of the spectrum to sound even better as the amp isn’t pushed by the bass since that was off loaded. Go hear the Sub9 System and notice how much better even the 7mk2 sound. I heard this at Rick Wilson’s shop in Ft Collins and was simply blown away. Just blown away. 

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On 8/2/2021 at 2:04 PM, ctsooner said:

Guys the genius of the suns is that they take the brunt of 100hz and lower (200 on Kēnto). They also recreate the same sound signature of the main amp. As Richard and others have stated, this also allows the other drivers in the ref of the spectrum to sound even better as the amp isn’t pushed by the bass since that was off loaded. Go hear the Sub9 System and notice how much better even the 7mk2 sound. I heard this at Rick Wilson’s shop in Ft Collins and was simply blown away. Just blown away. 

Just a quick note, that is Rick Duplisea at Audio Alternatives in Fort Collins Colorado.  Come see him at RMAF.

 

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