Sub 3

[TomicTime]

Having 7’s in my reference system sets a rather high bar for sonics that can trickle down to our second system with the wonderful Treo CT. So i like most audiophiles have a wandering eye and ear, always plotting those future upgrades…

I decided in our smaller room the added depth of Quattro would not be acceptable and that i did have some unused space to accommodate a Sub3. 
 

I ordered a Sub3 and the Kento grade hi-pass filters ( teflon caps ). To contrast with the Ambrosia Maple veneer on the Treo CT ,  we ordered the Sub 3 in Rosewood. Premium woods are a slight up-charge.

Sub arrived very well packed in 104# box that includes unpacking instructions, warnings, a detailed manual, 30’ of Audioquest 16/2 speaker wire, Pamona Banana jacks and spikes. Be sure to order spike shoes if needed to protect delicate floors !

Hi pass filters arrive in a separate package

[TomicTime]

Box, Inner, etc…

[TomicTime]

Setup is easy….follow the manual !,,,, Set high Pass filter DIP switch on each filter to match input impedance of your amplifier. The MC240 is 250K Ohms, select 1 and 3 DIP to on via decal table on M5 filter.

As you can see i am using a couple of magic bricks to get filters to amp level, i have a live edge block in work !

The provided AQ wire is directional, in my haste..i got one backwards…argh… 

You can w some care push the wire jacket thru the strain relief hole in the Pamona plug, i advise that.

The sub level is calibrated in db making it easy to quickly match to your Vandersteen speaker sensitivity…note  other speakers may be wildly inaccurate in this ( and every other measurement )..

Q is a matter of taste, i have ranged from .5 to .7 in my 7 system, so i chose the .6 as a starting point. I will set the EQ after getting some breakin time on the sub and filters and getting the sub on spike shoes.

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by TomicTime

[TomicTime]

Listening impressions: I have listened for about 8 hours now, including a marathon session late into the night. First the gain in midrange clarity is shocking…like a substantial upstream component upgrade….. I also note greatly increased clarity, detail and better defined stereo image ALL at lower listening levels… Shocking clarity while listening to music in the mid 60 db range late into the night….

The MC240 has super bandwidth for a transformer output tube amp, light loading it with high pass has an acute and undeniable positive effect on sonics.

As things break in, i fiddle a bit w placement and very importantly adjust the 11 band EQ, i will be sure to update you on the already stellar fast and tight bass performance!

Best to all. Hopefully this thread helps others.

Jim

[BKDad]

See?  Even as great as the Tree (and Quatro) cabinets are, they still move in synchrony with the music.  Specifically the bass part of the music.  Move some of that out and...

Maybe you need some granite bases under the speakers to match the tiles in front of the fireplace.

 

Since you're using the Kento intended high pass filters, are you running your Sub 3's up to 200 Hz?  Or, do you use a setting not shown on the filter?  Some other trickery?

Edited April 12, 2022 by BKDad

[TomicTime]

Granite is a definite maybe !

While intended for Kento, they are set at 80 hz ish… as 250 k is between dip switch settings, per manual “ select lower “ RV could comment on about where that lands…. @Richard Vandersteen

[Richard Vandersteen]

1 hour ago, TomicTime said:

Granite is a definite maybe !

While intended for Kento, they are set at 80 hz ish… as 250 k is between dip switch settings, per manual “ select lower “ RV could comment on about where that lands…. @Richard Vandersteen

One would have to test this with the test disc but with the SUB THREE it is not critical as it is with the SEVENS, KENTO, QUATRO speakers with powered subs.  It is self compensating to a degree with the 2W, 2Wq, SUB NINE and SUB THREE.  RV

[Richard Vandersteen]

1 hour ago, BKDad said:

See?  Even as great as the Tree (and Quatro) cabinets are, they still move in synchrony with the music.  Specifically the bass part of the music.  Move some of that out and...

Maybe you need some granite bases under the speakers to match the tiles in front of the fireplace.

 

Since you're using the Kento intended high pass filters, are you running your Sub 3's up to 200 Hz?  Or, do you use a setting not shown on the filter?  Some other trickery?

This is mostly true when the floor is not concrete.  The granite helps stabilize the speaker as if it is on concrete.  RV

[GdnrBob]

A partial hijack of the thread...

If I were to use more than 2 subs, how would you hook them up? 

I have a pair, but if I got 4 subs, stacking spades on the amp would be pretty impossible. Could you connect one to the amp and the second from the first sub?

B

[Richard Vandersteen]

1 hour ago, GdnrBob said:

A partial hijack of the thread...

If I were to use more than 2 subs, how would you hook them up? 

I have a pair, but if I got 4 subs, stacking spades on the amp would be pretty impossible. Could you connect one to the amp and the second from the first sub?

B

You don't want to do that because the signal is not as pure for the sub to work with.  Home runs are the best way to go but they could be crimped into one connector at the amp end.  Remember this is a small signal wire (not unlike an interconnect) so nothing fancy is required.  RV

 

[bkeske]

Very excited for your improved set-up with the Treo’s and the 3 Jim. As you know, I run my Treo’s with a couple ‘cheap o’ subs via the high level inputs from my amps. A bunch of tweaking at the sub end, but am pretty pleased how they ‘add to’ the otherwise Treo’s stellar performance. But…..one of these days, I know I’ll probably get a Vandy sub, or two, so will be interested in your results as you move forward. Congrats!

Edited April 12, 2022 by bkeske

[ctsooner]

I am so busy as I get ready for Monday's surgery and I'll be down hard for at least 3 weeks.  That said, I went to Audio Connection yesterday. Johnny and I had a fraeking BLAST.  It's been 3 years since I've seen him in person. Many I love that store.  

Auditioned the Treo's with the Sub 3.  Auralic Altair was streamer/DAC for all.  Rogue was used as was the brand new Belles that isn't out yet (from what I was told).  It's burning in as it was the first time he hooked it up as it JUST got there.  I loved what I heard.  We took the Sub3 out and the sound was typical great Vandersteen sound.  Even with digital, it was amazing.  BTW, that Auralic digital gear is fast becoming my favorite for the price, but it goes up against 12k gear I've heard.  They have nailed digital and this was their older piece, not the upgraded one. 

Bruce you will love it!!!!

Putting the Belles in with the Sub3 going, put this system on another planet.  Drive, speed, musicality, pace, tonality, depth, soundstage ...  any audio word that is positive works in what I felt.  I did get some goosebumps Richard, but no it's not vinyl.

Then we go across the street.  DAMN.....  Quatro, the new 2's were next. Same streamer/DAC with the Rogue first.  The 2's are just stupid.  STUPID GOOD!  How the heck he puts out that sound at that price is beyond me.  I liked it best with the Mimas and integrated DAC card.  Man was that fun. It's not close to the Treo and shouldn't be.  Slower, less refined etc..., but man has Richard knocked it out of the park. I could EASILY live with new 2's. Add one or two Sub3's and that would clean up the 2's even more to get it closer to the Treo's. The foundation is sweet to say the least.  The bass wasn't wooly.  you can delineate between the notes.  It's tuneful and fills the room. Rock and rollers will die for this speaker (or should).  The sibilance was just right.  It get the mids down pat for anything I've heard under 5k.  

Then Johnny moved the 2's out of the room (they sounded that good with Quatro's RIGHT next to them, so it wasn't a fair listen).  The Quatro's with Mimas/DAC getting the streaming from the Auralic and Robin Hood Silver (best value high end cable I've heard to date).  I can't even tell you how much better this was than the 2's, but it better be for the price.  This is another stupid good speaker. To me it's always been the best value in the line.  I've never heard any 20k speaker come close to what I heard.  I honestly would buy these over the Alexis (current gen) that costs 60k or so I guess.  Guys, my Quatro's are NOT set up properly yet as I need help to get the washers set up properly.  I love my system, but until I get a preamp, it won't sound nearly as good as it will.  As good as Mimas is/was, my Ayre AX5/20 smoked it for speed, neutrality, tonality etc...  again, it's a lot more money, but the speaker scales. I do wish he used Richards amps on the Quatro's, but he also has to have a top integrated amp to show it with to earn sales and he uses the M5's with the Kento's so you can hear how incredible that amp is.  

Last was the Sub9 system wiht the new 25k Aesthetix preamp (prettiest electronics piece I've ever seen I think).  The knobs on it are like jewels. I am going to tell every single electronics company I'm friends with to up their visual game like A's did.  What a sweet amp. I LOVE the ref Ayre pre. Best product Charlie and Ariel have ever come out with, but this Aesthetix's pre is special to say the least.  The rest of AMG table and Sub9 system.  I was there.  I asked for Krall as I saw her last week.  I was transported back to the Bushenell theater.  OMG was it spectacular. The Sub9 is a must for those of you with 7's. If you can afford it, it has to be on your audition list. It transforms the 7's in the same way Sub3 does the same for any Vandy speakers it's used with.  I've heard teh 7's enough times in so many different systems, that I remember how I feel and what I've heard each time.  I an honestly say that if I owned the older 7's, that I'd first get the Sub9 pair. Then I'd save my money and buy 2 Sub9's first.  I feel they make the largest difference, because they get clean up the whole spectrum.  IF I could then get the upgrade to the XTRM, I'd quickly do that.  The difference is a home run for Richard.  You have totally outdone what I thought the 7's could do.  The not overhang on all Vandy's is special and one reason they sound so real.  The 7 takes Dianas voice to the live level.   You could EASILY pick out the first violin, but then the music went back to coming at you the way it does when you are live.  If you focus on a specific instrument, you'll hear it, but then you just go back to hearing a wall of sound.  I recently heard the 250k? Wilsons Chrono's.  They were with the top Dan D'Agastino amps which I kind of like.  I enjoy Wilson's very much, but only for fun listening as they are totally out of phase and the cones break up and YES you can hear this.  Not so with 7's.  With vinyl spinning, I was transported back to the concert hall. I was so relaxed in a way that digital has never done for me.  I physically get more relaxed with analog as maybe my mind isn't filling in notes. Whatever it is, that's my truth.  I didn't want to leave.  Best system I've heard to date.  Top of the line everything and it showed.  

 

Thanks for reading this far if you did.  It was a great visit and I needed it.  I'm now thinking about saving for a pair of Sub3's for my Quatro's after I get the preamp.  

[ctsooner]

and congrats Jim. They are a stunning pair of speakers and I love the Rosewood.  Hopefully you get a third color wood somewhere else in the room for artistic symmetry, HA

[Holmz]

Best wishes on the recovery.
The music might help.

You guys have me thinking about upgrades, like the sub…

[TomicTime]

2 hours ago, ctsooner said:

and congrats Jim. They are a stunning pair of speakers and I love the Rosewood.  Hopefully you get a third color wood somewhere else in the room for artistic symmetry, HA

Pete - First things first - God bless you and prayers for a successful surgery and speedy recovery!

Lots of wood in the room, this small table built out of Ohio Black Walnut by my boat builder LiL brother from a tree I logged and bandmilled with my dad. I am blessed. I have a nice bit of love edge Curley Maple headed my way for the M5 filters 😉

Got wood for wood !

Jim

[ctsooner]

After hearing even one sub3 in the system, I was in awe.  The room is tiny as it’s the front of his shop. The glass windows are covered as you see in the photo. He has speakers in the room as well as other hard reflective surfaces. I can’t wait for him to finish the two new rooms as he is expanding, but right now he has the Treo/sub3 sounding great. 

[TomicTime]

Vandy spike shoes : Made in America, deep pockets to aid stability, felt to protect floors but not slip… available from your Vandy dealers, they come in a 6 pack….like beer !

[Holmz]

Looks like someone’s diesel engine is missing the pistons.

[BKDad]

17 minutes ago, Holmz said:

Looks like someone’s diesel engine is missing the pistons.

World's smallest diesel engine, then.

[TomicTime]

Shoes installed !

[ctsooner]

I'm a wing tip guy.  Do you have anything in my size?  That special felt he uses isn't cheap either. just more engineering, that isn't always seen 😉.   The money goes where it's supposed to go, ha

[Steve Edwards]

16 hours ago, TomicTime said:

Shoes installed !

SWEET Jim!

[GdnrBob]

Do they come in black?😉

Bob

[Holmz]

1 hour ago, GdnrBob said:

Do they come in black?😉

Bob

@GdnrBob I thought that they only where available in alloy or Blue Suede?

ooga ooga ooga chaka,

[ctsooner]

They look great in steel with the black spikes of the speakers and the black granite. 🙂.