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Help needed for 2.1 to 5.2


Holmz

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I have owned a pair of 2C since around 1985 ish.
So it is  probably a good investment as I have never though of replacing them.
I’ve been through a PSE amp, then some VTLs, and just got a used PrimaLuna from a friend (who was also the same friend that the VTLs came from)

At home we just got an OLED LG, and the audio is pretty dire.

The Mrs has some hyperacucis,  and simultaneously we both have hard time with hearing the dialogue from some movies and series.

The other problem with the 2C is the WAF, so I might try and get some brown socks/grills to better blend with the general dark brown wood in the room.

It is looking like I should use a VCC2 or a VCC5 rather than a VCC1.
Does anyone have dimensions for the VCC5? It seems a bit deep, and that was part of the WAF with the 2C… When I have them set up well then the house boss thinks that they are too far into the room.  That is the point where the sound gets a magical depth that seems like it is coming from outside of the living room wall. Which also gets some comments about not being able to even hear the speakers, and they don’t sound like speakers should sound… because you cannot hear them.
Maybe the VCC2 is a more correct choice being able to sit a bit further back?
However we will likely have a console below the TV, and move the TV to a wall mount. Then we can shove the AV gear into the cabinet and put the center channel on top… hence the size question.

If I go 5.2 then likely it will be the VSM1s, but the room is 14’ TV to sofa wall, and 18’ wide with another 12’ for an attached dining room.
Ceilings are 11am high and it is on wooden floor, so at least it makes running cables a bit easier… (i.e. under the floor).
So the VSM1 pair would be ~4 feet directly left and right of the sofa’s seated position. If I shove them, into the corner then they be maybe 6-10” back.

What is a sensible approach here?
Most of the AV forums seem to push Warfdales, KEF, Klipsh, etc… however I do not mind that even in 2 channel mode the TV seems like the sound is coming from the screen rather than the speakers.
I know it is probably a bit of an echo chamber of confirmation bias here, but I think I could do worse… and I have had the 2Cs for so long I am attached to them at this point.

Another friend with Dunlavy speakers commented that there were only a handful of speakers that where designed time/phase correct (Dunlavy, Spica, Vandersteen…). The VTL friend also has a pair of Spica’s in addition to the ML planners… so we all sort of like similar sounds.

The house is new to us, so there is also a bit to do for treatments that are WAF acceptable. A curtain over the window is an easy sell, as is a rug on the hardwood floor.

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Okay, I'll bite...

@Holmz,

Welcome to the forum!

As far as a response to your post:

Ohh, a toughie!

You have too many questions to answer easily.

It would help if you gave detailed information regarding your room (post or link photos).

As well as listed your equipment, what you thinking of replacing the 2's with,  listen to music, TV, or both,

, budget?- 

 

Bob

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The VCC-1 would be the best center by far.  It comes with a wall bracket so it can be mounted under the flat screen (ideal because you want the center to be about 1.5 to 2 feet farther away than the mains) but you would lie to the processor and set the distance the same as the main speakers.  The VSM-1 should be mounted on the side walls about 2 or 3 feet behind the listening position, if possible.  When you get this all running She may love the entertainment so much a pair of 2Ce Signatures III may be possible.  If not the TREO CT is very WAF friendly.

RV

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I've been on FB trying to get guys to come over here.  It's just easier to get info from Vandy owners who have a true understanding and passion to answer properly and not just to try and get guys to switch to their own speaker line or amp line etc...

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16 hours ago, GdnrBob said:

Okay, I'll bite...

@Holmz,

Welcome to the forum!

As far as a response to your post:

Ohh, a toughie!

You have too many questions to answer easily.

It would help if you gave detailed information regarding your room (post or link photos).

As well as listed your equipment, what you thinking of replacing the 2's with,  listen to music, TV, or both,

, budget?- 

 

Bob

 

Ok looking toward the front door which is behind a large entry, so the picture with the TV in the left corner.

And looking towards the dining room.
 

We have had the place ~10 years, and just in the process of a slow move in. (Covid compounding it)
The TV will likely move to where the white 2 seater is under the window... which I see I did not catch with the iPad camera.
The grey recliner is opposite where the TV will likely go.

I am actually not even thinking of replacing the 2cs…
I have an Audible Illusions Pre feeding into a PrimaLuna.
For an AV I have a Lyngdorf MP-50 coming my way (used).
I have 1 Vandersteen sub, and a couple of 12” drivers and Hypex 502 plate amps, so I have some options to try.

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BE64EEFF-E1ED-4FFD-93A9-0C05554EB398.jpeg

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14 hours ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

The VCC-1 would be the best center by far.  It comes with a wall bracket so it can be mounted under the flat screen (ideal because you want the center to be about 1.5 to 2 feet farther away than the mains) but you would lie to the processor and set the distance the same as the main speakers.  The VSM-1 should be mounted on the side walls about 2 or 3 feet behind the listening position, if possible.  When you get this all running She may love the entertainment so much a pair of 2Ce Signatures III may be possible.  If not the TREO CT is very WAF friendly.

RV


Thanks Richard - I met you 84 or 85 in Laguna Nigel at Joe’s house (The wire guy). I recall you talking about a small block ford in British car, so I was probably talking about using a 1970 Boss 302 engine… (That would have been in character for me to have done.)

I thought I read in the Q&A blog, that the VCC-1 would be better with the 1Cs or ICi. And that the VCC-2 would be better with 2C, 2Ci sigs etc.
The VCC-1 would be more WAF than a VCC-2 or VCC5 and I am trying to sneak the ol (dependable and good sounding) 2Cs in with the TV 😉

I would probably have the VCC 1 or 2 on a long cabinet and maybe the TV with it… (The room is 14 feet deep.)

And thanks!

Edited by Holmz
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13 hours ago, bkeske said:

@Holmz Glad you found your way here. I responded to your post on agon. You should  get some good advice here. By none other than Richard already.  😉

Thanks again.
 

1 hour ago, ctsooner said:

I've been on FB trying to get guys to come over here.  It's just easier to get info from Vandy owners who have a true understanding and passion to answer properly and not just to try and get guys to switch to their own speaker line or amp line etc...

I am not coming here from FB, but the thought is appreciated.

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17 hours ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

The VCC-1 would be the best center by far.  It comes with a wall bracket so it can be mounted under the flat screen (ideal because you want the center to be about 1.5 to 2 feet farther away than the mains) but you would lie to the processor and set the distance the same as the main speakers.  The VSM-1 should be mounted on the side walls about 2 or 3 feet behind the listening position, if possible.  When you get this all running She may love the entertainment so much a pair of 2Ce Signatures III may be possible.  If not the TREO CT is very WAF friendly.

RV

Correction VCC-2 as the VCC-1 is not dynamic enough for the Two.

RV

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Good info to know as others have asked me in the past. I dont' have a theater and am not up on the center channel speakers.  I wasn't into the small bookshelf one either and when I heard it was was blow away....and it was the non CT version.  I can't imagine the CT version.  

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I am confused (nothing new)...

Opposite the recliner, there looks to be some drapery-which I assume is the window. How wide is the room? Actually, what are the room dimensions? Looks like nice high ceilings, though...

The fireplace is on an angle, so not a square. Lots of doors make placement a bit difficult.

I ask this in order to try to place your furniture in the most welcoming position, as possible.

B

 

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4 hours ago, GdnrBob said:

I am confused (nothing new)...

Opposite the recliner, there looks to be some drapery-which I assume is the window. How wide is the room? Actually, what are the room dimensions? Looks like nice high ceilings, though...

The fireplace is on an angle, so not a square. Lots of doors make placement a bit difficult.

I ask this in order to try to place your furniture in the most welcoming position, as possible.

B

 


Maybe we are related? (I am also often confused too.)

Yes the drapery is behind  the two seater with the greenish blanket on it is under the window.
We litereally got back here last night, and the internet hook up from 8 weeks ago is supposed to be done tomorrow.

 

My thought at the moment is to have the TV on a wheeled entertainment console, so we can wheel it away if/when need be as the view out the window is not bad… (see attached photo)

(the other thought was to angle the sofa, but that scored a low WAF from the communist block judges.)

Another attached photo shows that there is a decent sized entry which will be the Haus-Boss’s craft room.

That fireplace is indeed on an angle. I’ll likely be busting out the saws and sanders to do a new hearth for it. The dining room side one is pretty ordinary looking so it will not take a huge amount of skill and craftsmanship to improve it by a factor of 5.

There are trap doors and a fairly decent crawl space under the floor, so at least cabling gets easy, and I could use Neutrik connectors (XLR and SpeakOn) to move signals around easily. 


Dimensions:

    • Main Room   = 4.3m x 5.8m x  3.37m high…   or 14.1’ x  19’ x 11’ == 2950 ft*3)
    • Dining Room = 4.1m x 3.6m x 3.37m high…   or 13.5’ x 11.8’ x 11’ == 1752 ft*3)
      • Total living + dining volume == 4700 ft^3   (less fireplaces)

890645C9-6A31-4995-82CF-E6251994FEA5.jpeg

C9E73438-D79C-419A-97B1-94DE745A9FEF.jpeg

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@TomicTime, I seem to recall you have some nice views, too.

@All,

With views like that, I couldn't believe Gregory Peck would leave Ava Gardner in 'On the Beach'- Though all the drunken renditions of 'Waltzing Matilda' might have been a contributing factor.😉

@Holmz,

My fist take is to keep the TV in the corner, and angle the sofa, 'She who must be obeyed' seems to have made this a non-starter (Though, I think you should try it, and see if it looks and sounds reasonable).

Or, - And, I think this would be my choice- is to remove the shelf above the fireplace and put the TV just above the fireplace. (BTW- is it working? Gas or wood burning?). Having the furniture angled  toward the fireplace would look very comfy and would make more sense as the hearth is the main focus of the room. (BTW- I had my partner look at your photos and he agrees. He also has a better grasp of using space. We both worked at homes designed with Parrish-Hadley, so some of this rubbed off. If you could have seen the 'Movie Room' at the Whitney's house in Manhasset, you would understand).

There is a small door opposite the window, near the small door at the opposing end- from the DR, where does that go to?

Bob

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@Holmz With a view like that, why are you watching television. Anyway, to add to what @GdnrBob said and what you mentioned about a wheeled cabinet, there are cabinets with built in lifts so that you can bring the television out when you want to watch and then it sinks back into the crevice when not in use. If you place the cabinet under the windows, you will be able to have the view and the best placement of speakers. I am not that gung ho about putting surround on the sides and prefer them in the back but in your case you don't have a choice.

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5 hours ago, ctsooner said:

I loved my time I. Fremantle/ Perth.  Spent some time there with the Kitty Hawk in 84

Wasn’t Kitty Hawk the flying place in NC?
I would have expected a navy person to go to Freo, not an Air Force person.  😀

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10 minutes ago, stratocaster said:

@Holmz With a view like that, why are you watching television. Anyway, to add to what @GdnrBob said and what you mentioned about a wheeled cabinet, there are cabinets with built in lifts so that you can bring the television out when you want to watch and then it sinks back into the crevice when not in use. If you place the cabinet under the windows, you will be able to have the view and the best placement of speakers. I am not that gung ho about putting surround on the sides and prefer them in the back but in your case you don't have a choice.

 

Well here it gets dark, and we do not usually watch the TV during the day, so it seems to work out.
I was thinking of moving the cabinet left and right, but then the speaker is another matter...
Mayne I should look at the raise-n-lower lifts like the one Linak makes?

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1 hour ago, stratocaster said:

@Holmz With a view like that, why are you watching television. Anyway, to add to what @GdnrBob said and what you mentioned about a wheeled cabinet, there are cabinets with built in lifts so that you can bring the television out when you want to watch and then it sinks back into the crevice when not in use. If you place the cabinet under the windows, you will be able to have the view and the best placement of speakers. I am not that gung ho about putting surround on the sides and prefer them in the back but in your case you don't have a choice.

Yeah… there is also the option of going with a 3.2.2 or 3.2.4  instead of a 5.2.
The first step will be 3.1 and then 3.2 or 3.3.

I am not sure if there is a good way to know the Atmos part without just setting it up and trying it.
I can envision that some chopper in a movie would be impressive, but less sure about more standard shows.

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