Setting crossover value to match amp impedance

[Richard Vandersteen]

23 hours ago, Steve Edwards said:

 

 

Some people have even reported to me they get best response by going up one setting from the actual amplifier impedance.  
 

Oh my!  When I return from my vacation, I’ve got TWO adjustments to do:  confirm the tilt on my Quatros is 8” (plus laser level height) above my ears at listening position and try going up one setting from the actual impedance level of my PSE Studio V amps  …………………….  

Pity the poor audiophile 

DO NOT GO UP OR DOWN AS THE HIGH-PASS (M5-HPB) MUST BE SET RIGHT ON!  ONLY WHEN USUNG THE SUB NINE, 2Wq or SUB THREE DO YOU GO THROUGH THIS OPTIMAZITION PROCESS!

RV

[Steve Edwards]

So it is written, so it shall NOT be done. 
 

For the clarification, thank you Richard!

[stratocaster]

On 9/10/2021 at 8:25 AM, Steve Edwards said:

So it is written, so it shall NOT be done. 
 

For the clarification, thank you Richard!

@Steve Edwards just because there are a lot of buttons that can be pushed in a fighter plane doesn't mean you press them with reckless abandon. Sooner or later you are going to hit the eject button and then it's game over....😂😂

Edited September 23, 2021 by stratocaster

[ctsooner]

12 hours ago, stratocaster said:

@Steve Edwards just because there are a lot of buttons that can be pushed in a fighter plane doesn't mean you press them with reckless abandon. Sooner or later you are going to hit the eject button and then it's game over....😂😂

That hilarious.  It’s like all the new cars also. You pay for so many goodies however typically you can set them and forget them. Trying to make it too complicated ruins when everything is intended forIt’s like all the new cars also. You pay for so many goodies however typically you can set them and forget them. Trying to make it too complicated ruins when everything is intended for

[ElizabethMcDonald]

Well yes we pay for these perks, install and use them.... that's what we paid to use. I can't understand you!

Edited September 28, 2021 by ElizabethMcDonald

[ctsooner]

2 hours ago, ElizabethMcDonald said:

Well yes we pay for these perks, install and use them.... that's what we paid to use. I can't understand you!

Sorry. That’s the MS foggy brain.  My only point is that we all encounter a ton of settings for everything electronic.  Use only what you need. Folks try to use everything or keep changing. Just find what you love, set it and then forget it. 

[DCH]

Hi Everyone. I’m a novice and I need some expert guidance on the ideal setting for the M5-HPB crossovers when using my Mark Levinson 331 amp. The documentation for the amp states that the input impedance is “100k ohms”.  Based on the sticker on the crossovers for this input impedance, all dip switches should be set to NONE.  With this set up,  my system isn’t giving my joy. I don’t know if the amp is perhaps end of life or if I should  try different crossover settings.  I just did have the amp refurbished and had a loaner amp in its place that I thought sounded really good. With the old, refurbished amp back in place,  I don’t know if it’s my amp or the crossover settings causing me angst. Is it worth it and safe to adjust the crossovers?  If so, in what direction?  

In appreciate any advice and/or informed opinions.  

[Holmz]

4 hours ago, DCH said:

… 

In appreciate any advice and/or informed opinions.  

There is always just flicking switches and seeing if 50 , 100 or 200 kOhms sounds best…

On page #3 of the 2003 manual it shows a signal generator and oscilloscope… but times have changed since then, so if you had a digital multi meter (DMM) and an iPhone app, then you could generate the tone for 1kHz and 100Hz with the app (replacing the signal generator).
And then measure RMS voltage with the DMM (replacing the o-scope).

It might also be possible with another computer to route the signal from the speaker into the mic input, with some Radio Shack parts like an 1/8” jack, some wire, and alligator clips. You probably would want the voltage below 1v, so just set the pre amp’s output pretty low and see what the DMM says that the voltage is. You could probably spectrum analyser app and get it straight out in dB. The app is probably optimal as if the output is too and clips the mic input then you’ll see harmonics at 2k, 3, 4… etc.

Also some DMMs are only accurate in AC “v~” setting at 50/60 Hz.

Granted I do not have the M5 gear, but the process sounds relatively easy from the comfort of my sofa 😗

In what way is the joy not happening? Too much bass or too thin?

Edited November 13, 2021 by Holmz

[DCH]

Thanks for the reply. It’s difficult for me to describe but music is lacking depth,  resolution and dimension. All the bass seems to be there but it seems like there’s a haze that prevents me from being pulled into listening as easily happens when everything is sounding right.  I’ll experiment with the crossover settings but I’m not sure what to expect. Do the settings only influence the deep base or affect mid bass as well?  Does a higher crossover setting reduce or increase bass/mid bass?   Primarily, I want to be careful not to damage anything. 

[Steve Edwards]

On 9/9/2021 at 5:17 PM, Richard Vandersteen said:

DO NOT GO UP OR DOWN AS THE HIGH-PASS (M5-HPB) MUST BE SET RIGHT ON!  ONLY WHEN USUNG THE SUB NINE, 2Wq or SUB THREE DO YOU GO THROUGH THIS OPTIMAZITION PROCESS!

RV

 

[Richard Vandersteen]

On 2/6/2021 at 12:09 PM, stratocaster said:

Greetings everyone,

I have had my 2wq for over 15 years and have used it with my DNA .5 until recently when I got my hands on a DNA 1. I was using a 75k crossover with the .5 and the sub seemed to blend well. However I am having a hard time getting a similar result with the DNA 1. I was wondering if there is any disadvantage of using a crossover value that’s the same as the input impedance of the amp? I have a bunch of different crossover values but the max value is 100k. I had plugged it temporarily and it seemed to sound much better with the sub kicking in only in songs that went low. Would using the same vale crossover as the amp impedance have a detrimental effect on the equipment?
 

The amp impedance for both amps is the same (100k)..

I have the X2s and not the M5s. I have X2s for 20, 50, 75, and 100k.

Any recommendations and caveats are welcome..

thanks 

Going to a higher impedance is not a problem as it moves the high-pass frequency higher.  Going too low is where you can get overdrive of the subs input stage which could cause failure.  This is only true of the subs but the Quatro, 5 series and SEVEN's need to be right on!  You do need to get the M5 as the X-2 is not transparent enough for anyone on this forum.  They show up used from time to time on Audiogon.

RV

[Richard Vandersteen]

11 hours ago, DCH said:

Hi Everyone. I’m a novice and I need some expert guidance on the ideal setting for the M5-HPB crossovers when using my Mark Levinson 331 amp. The documentation for the amp states that the input impedance is “100k ohms”.  Based on the sticker on the crossovers for this input impedance, all dip switches should be set to NONE.  With this set up,  my system isn’t giving my joy. I don’t know if the amp is perhaps end of life or if I should  try different crossover settings.  I just did have the amp refurbished and had a loaner amp in its place that I thought sounded really good. With the old, refurbished amp back in place,  I don’t know if it’s my amp or the crossover settings causing me angst. Is it worth it and safe to adjust the crossovers?  If so, in what direction?  

In appreciate any advice and/or informed opinions.  

You have Quatro's which must have the high-pass on the money!  Watch the video on this site on how to get it set at 100Hz with the test disc and volt meter.  THIS IS IMPORTANT!

RV

[DCH]

I will do that. Volt meter on order from Amazon arrives tomorrow.  I don’t have the disc or a player. I could connect a blu ray player if needed but are the test tones available for download?   If not is the disc available for order?  Thank you!

[GdnrBob]

Download test tones on the Vandy Website:

https://www.vandersteen.com/resources/document-downloads

Bob

[TomicTime]

download is the best way. 

[Holmz]

11 hours ago, GdnrBob said:

Download test tones on the Vandy Website:

https://www.vandersteen.com/resources/document-downloads

Bob

^That^ is pretty cool…

I downloaded them on the ipad.
(Had to use Safari and DuckDuckGo never works with zip files.)

Then plugged in the Etymotics ear phones. They did not allow me to hear tracks 16 and 17, but the others come through to varying degrees.

When I listened to track 15 I heard that I still had a heart beat. 🥰 

So if I was doing it for reals, then I could just replace the ear phones with my 1/8” to RCA adapter.
 

[DCH]

I’m trying to run the impedance test following Richard’s instructional video.  I have two remaining questions. 

1) The volt meter I got (see attached photo) appears to only have 500 and 200 volt scales instead of the 2 volt scale Richard used. Is it okay if I use the 200 scale?  With this setting, I was able to calibrate to the 1 volt output using track 27. Then, on track 30, I got a reading that fluctuates between .7 and .8. I guess with the higher scale setting on the meter, I’m not able to get a more accurate reading. Does my test confirm that the crossover settings are correct for my Quattros?

2) When I conduct theses tests, does it matter if I have the speaker connected?

Thanks, I may need to consult an electrical engineer friend. 

[GdnrBob]

You'd be better served by a RadioShack multimeter, though discontinued, you can find them on Ebay for quite inexpensively, as I did.

If Mr. V. doesn't respond, then PM me. I can give you Johnny Rutan's number. He can assist you with set up.

Bob

[Holmz]

6 hours ago, DCH said:

.…

2) When I conduct theses tests, does it matter if I have the speaker connected?

…

^I would keep it connected^, some amps do not like to be operated without a load.

Toggling between 0.7 and 0.8 seem close. If it was reading solidly at 0.7 would be closer to the 0.707 value (3dB).

[DCH]

I borrowed a good volt meter and got this reading playing track 30. This confirms that I have the correct crossover settings.  In this case, the input impedance documented in the amp’s documentation is accurate for 100Hz.  I think I’m good. My amp is sounding much better since plugging it directly into the wall instead of my power conditioner. 

[TomicTime]

Great work 😉 is there an adjacent dip switch setting that gets you closer to .707 ? This is an area where you do want to be close. Also was the 1.0 volt reference right on 1.0 ?
i also have a Fluke, love it. Certainly a lifetime tool.

Happy Thanksgiving all !

jim

[Richard Vandersteen]

When playing with switches that are not listed it is extremely important that switches 1,2,9,10 not be played with on the balanced high-pass and switches 1.2 not be played with on the single ended m5-hp!  Again, this is only important when playing with settings not on the chart.  Any combination can be tried but always go back and verify the 1000Hz track still measures 1 v ac.  If not, make it so.

RV

[Steve Edwards]

On 11/25/2021 at 8:20 AM, DCH said:

My amp is sounding much better since plugging it directly into the wall instead of my power conditioner

DCH, what power conditioner are you using?  It has been suggested to me  to try my amps plugged directly into the wall, but I’m apprehensive about losing the protection that my Equi=Tech provides. And, if I did that, I would need to add a multi outlet device, as there is just a dual outlet receptacle in the wall behind my rack.  I’m wondering if one of those devices would degrade the sound?  I’m guessing there are “audiophile grade” versions available out there. 
 

Here I go, down another rabbit hole  …………..  😧

[ctsooner]

I currently have my amps into the Niagara 3000. I’ll be switching to the wall next week.  I’ll keep you posted. 

[Holmz]

I usually just unplug the gear if the lightening bolts are raining down.
(Of course one needs to be home to do that.)

The sparkle is coming over this upcoming Friday to add some outlets. Maybe I should get a protection deal installed at the box?
I think we may need a bigger breaker box, which is totally different that North American boxes. And the breakers are all smaller and Euro style being 230v,