Vinyl / Turntables

[John Gallup]

11 minutes ago, Holmz said:

Does it sound any different?

Better, every step of the way. I actually have a couple of "reference" records I play after each such upgrade. No shocking improvements, plenty of confirmation bias I suppose.

[Holmz]

12 hours ago, John Gallup said:

Better, every step of the way. I actually have a couple of "reference" records I play after each such upgrade. No shocking improvements, plenty of confirmation bias I suppose.

Me too.
 

I was all ready to write a diatribe to @ursus13 about how the BPS probably is not any better than the Pyxi, but it is OK to put emotion ahead of objective fact.
But then he went and got the Pyxi… 😁 and it sort of ruined my plans.

The Sutherland stuff really had me thinking... So I am glad it is working out.

[ursus13]

4 hours ago, Holmz said:

I was all ready to write a diatribe to @ursus13 about how the BPS probably is not any better than the Pyxi, but it is OK to put emotion ahead of objective fact.
But then he went and got the Pyxi… 😁 and it sort of ruined my plans.

The Pyxi didn’t work out. The issues with RF interference is something I couldn’t remedy. A real bummer.

So, @Holmz feel free to diatribe!

[Holmz]

5 hours ago, ursus13 said:

The Pyxi didn’t work out. The issues with RF interference is something I couldn’t remedy. A real bummer.

So, @Holmz feel free to diatribe!

Nah - I dunno.
It is easier to base a raving diatribe on fact, otherwise it is just the ravings of a lunatic.
(There is a long tio a tribe in Ayn Rands book, so if one needs 90th pages of well thought out rant, then that is probably more accessible.)

Maybe I have been blessed, but I only ever had hum issues twice.
The first was difficult and nuanced, but the other was with digital last year.

There was a time a coworker and I had a hum issue at work.
We spent hours on a Saturday with some equipment, and in the end it was a bad BNC cable.

If it is a ground loop, then the BPS being powered from a battery, has less chance for loops.
Especially if it has a step up transformer built into it… I think it might, but I am unsure.

Ideally, if one had time and a tank of fuel, they could drive south with the TT and the Pyxi, and compare the Pyxi to the BPS at the owner of the BPS’ place.

Hum and hiss are two things that are distressing to me, and sibilance follows closely for me.
After that it sorted, is more like spice and flavour.

Good luck with it.

[ursus13]

6 minutes ago, Holmz said:

Hum and hiss are two things that are distressing to me, and sibilance follows closely for me.
After that it sorted, is more like spice and flavour.

Good luck with it.

Same here. I'm extremely sensitive to sound in general. A decade in audio engineering, and now I do a lot of work in film/tv postproduction that involves reviewing sound/music/final mix. My colleagues started calling me "Bat Ears" because I'm so sensitive to audio detail. Once I was working with an Academy Award winning sound guy for two months who could not believe the minute notes I had during our review/spotting sessions. I can often hear and identify a 1/24 of a second discrepancy in one audio track of a 100+ track mix. It's like a super-power on the mixing stage, and a (literally) painful and inescapable sensory experience out in the real world. It was only this year that it was identified as a neurological disorder that has to do with an inability to suppress excitatory sensory information.

So basically, I need a good phono pre.

[ursus13]

Update:

I messaged back and forth with Wyn Palmer, and after some fiddling, I got the Pyxi buzz to disappear. It appears that it was a ground loop. All of the prescribed remedies didn't work. I was incidentally re-patching some power cables in my power strip and the next time I tried the Pyxi the buzz was gone. Wyn and I have no idea what the culprit was, the power cables ended up in the same sockets where they started.

I'm nervous that the buzzing will return in the future if I mess with power cables again. We'll see.

Now the Pyxi is dead quiet with the arm raised. I put my ear right up to both speakers.

Pyxi first impressions:

The Pyxi sounds great. Still gathering my impressions, but after two hours of active listening last night, I would describe the sound as balanced (across the frequency spectrum) and slightly bass forward. Not exaggerated by any means, but "deep" and controlled.

The overall detail is very clean, in a pleasant way. I've heard people call it "neutral" which could sound derogatory, but I totally get what they mean, and I like it. It offers the good aspects of digital, ultra low distortion, extremely flat and broad frequency response, but also the space, etc., that so many people say they like about vinyl.

My wife and I both agree that the Pyxi seems to hit harder when it comes to percussion. The initial attack on the kick drum or the snare, for instance. We independently came to the same observation.

I plan to do a lot more listening this weekend. And I'll A/B the Pyxi with the ProJect phono pre I have on hand.

So far, the Pyxi is very good. Especially at $300.

[ursus13]

So here is where I ended up: Rega P10 Turntable, Hana ML cart, and a SOTA Pyxi phono stage. Thank you guys very much for the discussion and the guidance, it was a huge help (as always.) Now I need to buy some quality records...

[ctsooner]

I do love that look of the Rega.  I'm sure you will love this set up and congrats 

[ursus13]

4 hours ago, ctsooner said:

I do love that look of the Rega.  I'm sure you will love this set up and congrats 

Thanks @ctsooner! It’s a pretty striking minimalist look in person. And I have to say, it sounds special.

The trick now is finding quality vinyl. Boy is there a lot of poor quality pressings out there. I had no idea.

[Oregon]

1 hour ago, ursus13 said:

The trick now is finding quality vinyl. Boy is there a lot of poor quality pressings out there. I had no idea.

Yep. Do you have used records stores nearby? I try to buy records which have net been "breathed on" by digital processing, not always easy.

Enjoy.

[BKDad]

Quote

"slightly bass forward"

Ursus --

How did you determine that this is due to the phono stage?  Did you try a comparison?  Is this in comparison to your Iggy DAC?

I'm not challenging you here, but there's a lot of variables in your new system additions.  I've been looking longingly at the RP10 and don't have any good cartridge ideas, other than what reviewers have offered.  They obviously normally test with a Rega cartridge.

[BKDad]

31 minutes ago, Oregon said:

Yep. Do you have used records stores nearby? I try to buy records which have net been "breathed on" by digital processing, not always easy.

From what I gather, digital processing of some kind has been used in cutting records since the early 70's.  

Dawn of Commercial Digital Recording

Of course, not every vinyl album was cut using the Ampex system, but certainly enough did.

I think the point where things took a turn is when the engineering and mixing started to predominantly be done in a computer using Pro Tools.  It gave almost everybody in the production chain an opportunity to mess around with the sound in all sorts of ways.  And, many did.  Also, the original Pro Tools software wasn't great in terms of their processing, either.   But, just when has it ever been about the sound quality for record companies?

It seems that most of the remasters coming out on the market today aren't really aimed at satisfying the sound quality desires of people who own Vandersteen loudspeakers.  Just the way it is.  (I think this may be why most streaming services are, ahh, suboptimal.  Aside from the challenges in making digital work right, the basic sources are the crappy remasters the record companies provide to these services.)

To me, this is why older records are better.  So, maybe, buy used records and a high quality record cleaning machine.  Or, use one of the good record cleaning services.  Spend less on the media and use the savings to restore the vinyl quality. 

 

[ursus13]

33 minutes ago, BKDad said:

Ursus --

How did you determine that this is due to the phono stage?  Did you try a comparison?  Is this in comparison to your Iggy DAC?

I'm not challenging you here, but there's a lot of variables in your new system additions.  I've been looking longingly at the RP10 and don't have any good cartridge ideas, other than what reviewers have offered.  They obviously normally test with a Rega cartridge.

Hi @BKDad. You're absolutely right, I have a lot of new components at play, and some kind of comparison was necessary. Happy to give a more detailed breakdown of my process.

I compared the Pyxi phono stage to a comparably priced ProJect phono stage that I am borrowing from a friend. This is certainly not a scientific comparison, rather my completely subjective attempt to get an initial impression about the Pyxi by comparing the two phono stages. (The ProJect phono stage is one that I have heard in and out of three different systems, so I'm doing my best to use that phono stage as my baseline.)

I shared my listening impressions about the Pyxi with Wyn Palmer (who designed the Pyxi) and he responded "Yes, many listeners describe exactly what you are hearing- myself included."

I also shared my impressions with Christian Griego (president and director of development at SOTA) and he had a similar response, that he and others at SOTA, as well as other Pyxi customers were hearing similar to what I am hearing.

After Wyn and Christian validated what I was hearing from the Pyxi, I felt like it was worth posting my impressions here in the forum. Again though, not scientific, purely subjective, and all in the spirit of "for discussion's sake."

I did also compare the vinyl front end with the two DACs that I have on hand (Yggy and QX-5 Twenty) but I didn't really mention it in this forum since that comparison isn't relevant to the Pyxi phono stage, it's more of a basic "for fun" comp between digital and vinyl. (Which is fun to switch back and forth during the same synched track and hear the differences.)

As far as the P10 turntable itself, it's the only TT I've ever owned or had in this system, as is the Hana ML cartridge, so I can't really comment on either, other than the usability. I find the P10 user friendly, as a first time turntable owner/user. Assembly was simple. Balancing the arm is straight forward, if time consuming. Installing the cart was time consuming but fairly simple using a protractor and basic tools. The whole process required a lot of patience, it took me a few hours. Day to day use of the P10 is straight forward and enjoyable to interface with, and I like the minimalist looks. The only issue I've had so far is the ground loop issue discussed in the posts above. (The issue with bass feedback through the P10 is due to my placement of the TT and not any component in the system, and it's infrequent.)

Rega support via their US distributor Musical Surroundings has been excellent, promptly responding to email questions. SOTA has been outstanding with support, which is how I met Wyn and Christian, as well as Donna, who are all extremely helpful and kind. Hana's US distributor was very responsive with my initial questions about loading and about the cart's physical dimensions before I purchased.

As a combined vinyl front end I very much like sound of the P10/Hana/Pyxi combination. I may have an opportunity to hear a Rega P3, with the same Hana cart, as well as a Manley phono stage, over here in my system. All just for fun and a chance to hear different combinations of components. I'm new at this hobby with a ton to learn, which I why I value this forum so much.

[BKDad]

Well, those are good and very fair answers.

Thanks!

[Oregon]

2 hours ago, BKDad said:

From what I gather, digital processing of some kind has been used in cutting records since the early 70's.

To me, this is why older records are better.  So, maybe, buy used records and a high quality record cleaning machines.

Yeah, digital processing has been around since the 70's, heard my first digitally recorded record in the early 80's. My local used record store proprietor are on a first name basis.

Old records, tube electronics, life is good for this old fart. Are we all old farts at this point?

[Oregon]

Forgot to add, a Kirmuss record machine has reclaimed most of the joy hiding in my records grooves. :^)

[John Gallup]

27 minutes ago, Oregon said:

a Kirmuss record machine has reclaimed most of the joy hiding in my records grooves. :^)

I saw him demonstrate this machine at an audio show, and also read Fremer's long and exhaustive analysis of the machine and its processes. Both made it seem like a serious and laborious commitment in order to get to the desired result. Was that your experience?

[Oregon]

Yes, the process can be labor intensive, may have to be done repeatedly, and is sufficiently loud to prevent cleaning a record while listening to your stereo. I have run some records for nearly an hour to so as to "restore" them.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Oregon

[Holmz]

Thom Mackris (Galibier) is doing a tonearm rest for the Schroder, and I sent him a couple of SOTA arm boards.
I don’t know if anyone else is running a Schroder, but … if so, then he is an easy fellow to chat with.
Lives/works in Colorado.

 

I think it is the same as seen here.

https://galibierdesign.com/products/tonearms/ta-schroeder/

[atlvalet]

So, I recently went down a vintage rabbit hole and picked up a 1970's Rotel RP-3000 (I have a fancy enough newer table, so I didn't feel the need to drop a silly amount of money on a Micro Seiki or something).

So, I am resto-modding the turntable, getting it re-veneered and some other things. The TT has both RCA outs and a DIN phono out. The user manual says DIN to RCA if the amp has RCA inputs or RCA to DIN if the amp has a DIN input.

Well, I will be hooking it up to a rebuilt Rotel RA-1412 integrated amp (110W per channel, dual mono) that has a DIN input and RCA's. I wonder if a DIN to DIN connection is possible and if not, is the DIN to RCA connection the preferred way to do it?

This is only my second table and I am getting up to speed on all the options on 70's receivers and integrated amps.

Thanks in advance.

[Sbank]

DIN to RCA connection is tried and true. Your cable options are numerous with this configuration. Din to Din, not so much.