What are you using and which speakers?

[Eric Neff]

Tosa is great. We used to live in West Allis. Great area.

[Pilrem]

I am in Pewaukee but I travel to and through Duluth a few times a year. Are there any good audio shops near Duluth?

I spent close to an hour today with Jon talking about Audioquest and some other things. As a result, I bought a set of AQ William Tell Bass and Zero today. I should have them in 2 weeks or so... The question came up on how to terminate the amp end of the cables. Since I have the Quatro CT the speaker end will be spades but I was advised to go with spades on the amp end of the WT bass.  And Bananas on the amp end of the zeros. Jon explained that there were a couple of reasons for going this way instead of a single Siamese Twin spade on the amp end.  

This allows for easier upgrade of the mid/treble cable if I want to switch to WT silver in the future or some similar upgrade. Jon told me that based upon discussion with Garth at AQ, spades on the bass WT are important because of the Ground Noise Dissipation system. Bananas allow me to not stack spades on my REF 75SE. Jon had more to say about this but at best, I could only parrot his comments... Through some trial and error they feel that this was the best practical solution. I like the approach because I am more likely to upgrade the WT Zero before the WT Bass. 

I was at the Vandersteen Kento event at Ultra Fidelis and had a chance to talk to RV and drink some beer with him. What a nice, down to earth man he is. Listening to him talk is quite an educational experience and fun.

 

Thanks to ctsooner for all the help and advice!!

Edited February 3, 2021 by Pilrem

[ctsooner]

Rob, so happy for you. Great choice. Jon is as good as anyone IRT speaking with Garth and others to make sure he gives the right advice.  I never even thought about the amp termination.  I was told to have one set of spades on the amp end.  My amp doesn't even take bananas I don't think.  Very interesting information.  So glad you had such a wonderful experience.

 

[Eric Neff]

Pilrem, no there is only best Buy. I either have to go to the Twin Cities os make a road trip to Milwaukee.  Jon is a terrific resource. I have the William Tell Bass and Zero cables with my Quatro CT's and it is a strong match. Richard made that same suggestion when I was still using a set of AQ Castle Rocks. Nice cables but the WT's are far superior. Better everything. All my cables are spade connectors. AQ has a perfect Vandy size too. Since my amps (PS Audio BHK 300 Monos) have two sets of speaker connectors I can biwire with spades on each terminal without a siamese setup.

 

 I was at the Kento event as well. What a house full! Always a treat to get some time with Richard.

 

Eric

[ctsooner]

I had the Castlerocks too.   Going to the Tells was a revelation.  I just never felt that changing cables could make a component upgrade.  I think the cable industry has finally gone to a lot more science based R&D rather than what a lot of it was in the begin. 

[Pilrem]

I bought a set of William Tell Bass and Zeros a few weeks ago. They sounded very good out of the box but now (with about 30hrs in my system) they are a bit bright. My guess is that this will subside with more hours, has anyone noticed this? 

Its clear that the WT's are going to be a keeper for me. They have brought a naturalness to my system that makes things sound real and not hifi.

The problem now (good problem to have) is that I traded in my Audio Research LS 27 for a REF 6. I bought this through Jon at Ultra Fidelis in Milwaukee. It is a CPO unit fresh from ARC. Zero hours on the clock. I have only had the time to place it on the rack and fire it up for a test listen.  Wow!

Now I have multiple break-in/burn-in issues? First world problems for sure. 

Has anyone had any experience with the ARC CPO program?

Edited May 11, 2021 by Pilrem

[Eric Neff]

I do not have any CPO program experience. I did have the Ref6SE/REF160S combo in for review with the Quatro's and the WT cables. It was a magnificent few weeks. I had not experienced the brightness you describe. The WT's have been an amazing upgrade from my Castle Rocks.

[ctsooner]

Wow, my dream is the Ref 6 or the 6 signature.  What GREAT preamps.  I didn't realize they had a program set up like that.  I doubt these top companies offer many CPO units as they are so well built to begin with.  BTW, I owned the WT's copper and now the silver (as you well know) and have had zero issues with the top end.  The silver cable is even smoother and more organic in it's presentation.  AQ is about as good as it gets when using silver in their cables and cords.  

[ctsooner]

Eric, I had the Castle Rock's for the Treo's and then Quatro's until I went with the WT's and now to the WT silver.  Just an amazing speaker cable.  Please link your reviews when you are able to.  Thanks. 

[Eric Neff]

I was reviewing the REF16S specifically. It will be in Tone this Summer. I will link it once it is out.

 

[Pilrem]

The CPO may be specific to certain ARC models, I do not know for sure.  I do know that they do this for the REF 6.

Jon at Ultra Fidelis told me that when customers send in their REF 6 to ARC for the SE upgrade, there is a shortage of manpower at ARC to do the benchwork.  Instead, ARC is offering a trade-in promo where for not much more money than the SE upgrade cost, they will provide a new Ref 6SE. 

Then, they select the better REF 6 models they take in and they rework them. Full cleaning, new tubes, test listen by Warren, etc. They are then sold as a CPO with a 1 year warranty. Models must be cosmetically and operationally perfect or they will supply the parts to make then so...

A dealer has the option of getting back specific REF 6 models they sent to ARC so they can understand the complete history of the CPO preamp. This is what I bought. I could have saved $1000 buying on the used market but fresh factory certification, new tubes and a 1 year warranty won me over. Plus I love the support from Ultra Fidelis. 

 

[Pilrem]

The CPO may be specific to certain ARC models, I do not know for sure.  I do know that they do this for the REF 6.

Jon at Ultra Fidelis told me that when customers send in their REF 6 to ARC for the SE upgrade, there is a shortage of manpower at ARC to do the benchwork.  Instead, ARC is offering a trade-in promo where for not much more money than the SE upgrade cost, they will provide a new Ref 6SE. 

Then, they select the better REF 6 models they take in and they rework them. Full cleaning, new tubes, test listen by Warren, etc. They are then sold as a CPO with a 1 year warranty. Models must be cosmetically and operationally perfect or they will supply the parts to make then so...

A dealer has the option of getting back specific REF 6 models they sent to ARC so they can understand the complete history of the CPO preamp. This is what I bought. I could have saved $1000 buying on the used market but fresh factory certification, new tubes and a 1 year warranty won me over. Plus I love the support from Ultra Fidelis. 

 

[Eric Neff]

Not a surprise. I toured the factory in March and it was great. The level of detail during assembly is incredible. I had a nice couple of hours with Warren, Dave and Trent too. Amazing gear and great people.

 

[ctsooner]

Love Dave.  Just a great guy who's been around for a few years, lol.  Jon's birthday is today for anyone who wants to wish him a happy birthday, lol... great CPO story on the pre.  

[Eric Neff]

I sent Jon a HBD on FB. I miss hanging out in the store.

[DCH]

Hi Everyone,  

I have Quattros and I am seeking amp recommendations.  I’m prepared to spend $5 to $7K but could be compelled to go higher if something gets me really excited.  I welcome any guidance from anyone who can offer expertise.

For context, I’m currently running my Quattros with a Mark Levinson 331 that I’ve owned for over 25 years. Now that I have the means, I’m looking to upgrade to a more modern (and more environmentally friendly) amp. My amp draws 110 watts when in standby, which I have a hard time rationalizing for a couple hours of music enjoyment per week.

Thanks in advance for sharing any opinions.

 

 

[Eric Neff]

I am running them atm with a Sanders Sound Magtech amp. Fantastic sound. 500wpc class A/B. The Magtech features a fully regulated power supply. A rarity in an amplifier.

[GdnrBob]

@DCH,

If you can wait, I would look for a pair of Ayre MXR monoblocks. Even the non-Twenty amps (which I own) are unbelievable.

And, if you can wait for me to score of Mr. V's M5 amps, I'll sell them to you.😁

Bob

[DCH]

Interesting. Until now, I didn’t know about Sanders Sound. Based on your post, I went to their website to get educated.  Their unique design approach is compelling. I plan to dig in to explore this option further. Thanks for the recommendation.  

[DCH]

Hi Bob,  Please stay in touch. I am a big fan of Ayre.  In fact, my front end is a QX-5 twenty.  Im interested in Ayre amps, especially if they have the filters optimized for the Quattros built in.   

[Holmz]

1 hour ago, DCH said:

Hi Everyone,  

I have Quattros and I am seeking amp recommendations.  I’m prepared to spend $5 to $7K but could be compelled to go higher if something gets me really excited.  I welcome any guidance from anyone who can offer expertise.

For context, I’m currently running my Quattros with a Mark Levinson 331 that I’ve owned for over 25 years. Now that I have the means, I’m looking to upgrade to a more modern (and more environmentally friendly) amp. My amp draws 110 watts when in standby, which I have a hard time rationalizing for a couple hours of music enjoyment per week.

Thanks in advance for sharing any opinions.

 

 

I am not the greatest great fan of Class-D, but you’re statement of “110W in standby” and “environmentally friendly” sort of suggests that would be the one of the edge cases to consider.
It should be easy to find a couple of Purifi stereo amps to run vertically bi-amped behind each speaker, or one of their larger (~700W ?) mono amps behind each speaker.

I saw these last Friday:

(Purifi Stereo) https://www.marchaudio.net.au/p452-purifi-amplifiers

(Purifi Mono) https://www.marchaudio.net.au/product-page/p451-mono-block-power-amplifier ($3600/pair)

(Hypex) https://www.marchaudio.net.au/p701-hypex-ncore-amplifier

Personally I am using a tube amp, so that is about as far away from a low distortion Class-D as one can get. But if one was going to Class-D then the Purifi is at the top and the Hypex is so close as to not be concerning… but I would opt for the Purifi based ones myself.

However they do not have the sexy pull that an older classic A/B amp has.

I should be able to get a chance to demo them in a few months. I would want to A/B them against what I have currently.

Here is review from 22 months ago,
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/march-audio-p502-stereo-amplifier-measurements.10909/

You would be an outlier using Class-D, as many feel that they lack “musicality” when they use a low distortion amplifier. Especially when compared to tube amps.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Holmz

[Holmz]

Actually the easiest solution here may be to just unplug them and do not leave them on stand-by mode for the 166/168 hours/week?

[DCH]

There is indeed a shut off option but these  amps and many other electronics are designed to sound their best at a stabilized temperature.  Standby mode keeps critical circuits powered on which persistently consumes electricity.  When the amp I have was designed, there wasn’t a lot of consideration for standby power consumption.  I believe that newer amps solve for this to comply with government requirements. 

[DCH]

I have given thought to class D technology  I find this intriguing but I’m not an early adopter.   Being green is not a primary motivation for me but I do hope to benefit from modern standards.  

Based on the info you provided, I will conduct further research on these options. 
 

Thank you.  This is most helpful. 

[Holmz]

1 hour ago, DCH said:

There is indeed a shut off option but these  amps and many other electronics are designed to sound their best at a stabilized temperature.  Standby mode keeps critical circuits powered on which persistently consumes electricity.  When the amp I have was designed, there wasn’t a lot of consideration for standby power consumption.  I believe that newer amps solve for this to comply with government requirements. 

I never believed too much that they sounded better after being on for a while. But I am a sceptical fellow by nature.
Hence, why suggested to see if that is still true with you current Levisons.
If they sound acceptable being tuned on only a few minutes ahead of time, then you can breathe a sigh of relief and look around more leisurely,

 

47 minutes ago, DCH said:

I have given thought to class D technology  I find this intriguing but I’m not an early adopter.   Being green is not a primary motivation for me but I do hope to benefit from modern standards.  

…

Only mentioned the Class-D as they would probability be way outside of the box, and after a decade or more they seem to be getting pretty good.

Having high distortion speakers and arguing about hearing the difference between amps with 1/10 to 1/100th the distortion makes me sceptical. But it is probably it is easier when the speaker is running at a low volume as it is more linear, and the distortion is then lower by 10+dB.

However you’re sorta of hosed by having pretty good speakers (in a good way). If you had some high distortion musical speakers, it would not really matter what you ran them with. My impression of the MK-331 is that it’ll be easier to make them sound worse, than to make them better, so it will take some effort.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Holmz