John Gallup Posted May 8, 2022 Share Posted May 8, 2022 3 hours ago, Moose said: Just a comment - the Little Loco is made for low-output moving coil cartridges, so you need to keep that in mind if you are considering one. Also, I agree on the Rega if you want the least amount of fuss. At least a P3 or higher. That tonearm is their magic element. If you decide to do the cartridge mounting yourself, a MintLP protractor is my favorite alignment gauge. You'll have to order one, but the turnaround is fast. Good point. Probably any dealer who carries the Little Loco would warn you about this and/or help you set it up. Another thing that's simple about Rega's system is that if you use one of their cartridges there's very little setup to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted May 8, 2022 Share Posted May 8, 2022 Audiophile know thyself ! Tinkerers of tge world unite ! but plug and play also has it’s day…. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmz Posted May 9, 2022 Share Posted May 9, 2022 12 hours ago, Moose said: Just a comment - the Little Loco is made for low-output moving coil cartridges, so you need to keep that in mind if you are considering one. … And also perhaps not every LOMC. A friend wrote them about his vdHul, and months later they responded with, “I wouldn’t work with it then, but it will now.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Just being upfront here, I was an aerospace machinist/engineer for 50 years. Aluminum resonates, even thick aluminum resonates, aluminum resonates. On my high-end clearaudio rig a folded-over Post-It isolates the aluminum sub-platter from the delrin platter. Separate aluminum from the adjacent material/component. Aluminum is cheap, it sounds less-than-great. You guys should do same with your rigs. It matters. Cheers, Cody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 everything resonates…it’s the quantum nature of the universe…it’s about how much? and very importantly for audio reproduction, at what fundamental frequency ? Congrats on a great career in Aerospace Oregon ! I did the same but only made it 30 years. Best to all Jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 But as the Oregon experiment points out so inexpensively and well, every audiophile should experiment with damping and isolation of various components by various means…it will also improve discernment and listening skills…. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmz Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 17 hours ago, Oregon said: Just being upfront here, I was an aerospace machinist/engineer for 50 years. Aluminum resonates, even thick aluminum resonates, aluminum resonates. On my high-end clearaudio rig a folded-over Post-It isolates the aluminum sub-platter from the delrin platter. Separate aluminum from the adjacent material/component. Aluminum is cheap, it sounds less-than-great. You guys should do same with your rigs. It matters. Cheers, Cody I am not sure I totally agree with ^that^. They don’t make any drum symbols, nor triangles out of aluminium. It is sort of symbolic that brass is used for them as well as other instrument. It is pretty much a stiffness and mass that determines resonant frequency… but I am unclear about the dampening. Then every time we have an impedance mismatch there will be a reflection… so ideally at the end of the structure we likely want a termination that has the impedance taper so that the resonance will be sucked into oblivion without an internal bounce back of the energy. At the stylus end of a TT, alloy has been a dandy because the stiffness is more related to the diameter as maybe R^3… so a bigger diameter rod is stiffer than a smaller diameter rod of a denser material. And a pipe is stiffer than a rod with the same material and weight. So at the very front we often have an alloy. …. but I am not sure I can hear a difference between copper and silver either (in wires). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 (edited) On 6/9/2022 at 3:38 PM, Holmz said: I am not sure I totally agree with ^that^. They don’t make any drum symbols, nor triangles out of aluminium. It is sort of symbolic that brass is used for them as well as other instrument. It is pretty much a stiffness and mass that determines resonant frequency… but I am unclear about the dampening. Then every time we have an impedance mismatch there will be a reflection… so ideally at the end of the structure we likely want a termination that has the impedance taper so that the resonance will be sucked into oblivion without an internal bounce back of the energy. At the stylus end of a TT, alloy has been a dandy because the stiffness is more related to the diameter as maybe R^3… so a bigger diameter rod is stiffer than a smaller diameter rod of a denser material. And a pipe is stiffer than a rod with the same material and weight. So at the very front we often have an alloy. …. but I am not sure I can hear a difference between copper and silver either (in wires). The intent of the Post-it paper stickies is to separate any inherent vibrations/resonances between the aluminum sub-platter from the turntable's platter. Before retiring, I worked as an aerospace/prototype machinist/engineer for nearly 50 years. I just don't trust anyone-other-than-myself to do it right. Does my little tweak make a sonic difference? I think so. This tweak absolutely improved the sound of a Rega P6 with it's glass platter. As a result, said tweak is now an element of my ClearAudio Performance DC turntable (heavy delrin platter)/Tracer tonearm/Kiseki cartridge combination. Both the Rega and ClearAudio sub-platters incorporate six-pad aluminum sub-platters to support their respective platter/s at 60 degrees apart. Since three points define a plane, I only incorporate the three Post-It stickies 120 degrees apart. Cheers, Cody Edited July 30, 2022 by Oregon 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gallup Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 On 6/8/2022 at 9:27 PM, Oregon said: On my high-end clearaudio rig a folded-over Post-It isolates the aluminum sub-platter from the delrin platter. Separate aluminum from the adjacent material/component. Aluminum is cheap, it sounds less-than-great. You guys should do same with your rigs. It matters. Was going to try this tweak, as the price is certainly right and the level of effort minimal. Removed my acrylic platter and saw this: http://www.groovetracer.com/images/ISO_REF-crop.jpg Pretty sure these rubber buttons do exactly the same thing as the sticky-notes would do. Then looked up the subplatter on Groovetracer.com and read this: Quote Each Subplatter is actually a three piece precision assembly. This unique design only offered by Groovetracer allows the record spindle to be completely decoupled from the bearing axle to eliminate vibration transfer from the bearing thrust point to the record spindle. The hub is machined from 6061-T6 Aluminum and the bearing axle is constructed from hardened (RC 62) and ground steel. The third component is the record spindle which is machined and polished from Stainless Steel. Following assembly, each subplatter is inspected for concentricity. So I decided to skip the stickynote tweak. 😅 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Gallup Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 Here's the Groovetracer subplatter pic. Tried repeatedly to edit it into the original post without success. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmz Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 Thanks Cody - I might try doing some of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GdnrBob Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 Interesting, so you put that underneath the platter? Doesn't it change the platter height? B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Edwards Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 On 6/9/2022 at 9:07 AM, TomicTime said: But as the Oregon experiment points out so inexpensively and well, every audiophile should experiment with damping and isolation of various components by various means…it will also improve discernment and listening skills…. Well shucks Jim, guess I'll have to grab a couple post-it notes to try on my LP12! "On my high-end clearaudio rig a folded-over Post-It isolates the aluminum sub-platter from the delrin platter" Oregon, does "folded over" mean not utilizing the adhesive section, or is it to increase the thickness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctsooner Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 Does it. After what is written on said notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stringreen Posted July 31, 2022 Share Posted July 31, 2022 The best cartridge I ever had was a Benz LPS. seemed to dance with my components better than my Winfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 17 hours ago, GdnrBob said: Interesting, so you put that underneath the platter? Doesn't it change the platter height? B Here's a pic of a Rega sub-platter with the same tweak. This mod made quite the difference with the Rega's glass platter. More improvements came with the addition of a FunkFirm (?) platter mat. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmz Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Oregon said: Here's a pic of a Rega sub-platter with the same tweak. This mod made quite the difference with the Rega's glass platter. More improvements came with the addition of a FunkFirm (?) platter mat. The discontinuity caused by the “post it notes” would impede the resonance coupling between the alloy or glass platter (not shown) above the “post it” notes, and the alloy piece underneath. So the resonance would be reflected back from the perspective of either side. A viscoelastic layer there might cause more resonance to turn to heat in the region. So each side should see less energy reflected, but each side would also wonder where that energy went. This is possibly somewhat different than say a tonearm to an arm board. There we might want them to be coupled so that the arm board does not allow a reflection of energy back… but maybe the arm board is designed to have a viscoelastic layer to the chassis to suck up energy. We probably would want the arm board and arm to act as one system if the resonance of the arm board and the arm are individually resonant in the audio range… and then the heavier arm+arm board would resonate lower in freq(?). Basically the solutions to the problems may be different in different areas of the TT system. We don’t want a low mass cartridge to be wobbly on the head shell, and we don’t want the motor to be stiffly attached onto the chassis… etc. And sometime we like a rubbery platter mat between the record and platter. I can certainly picture this mod having an effect upon the sound. And it is great of it is a positive effect. (Three dabs of silicon might also have an effect.) Edited August 1, 2022 by Holmz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Edwards Posted August 1, 2022 Share Posted August 1, 2022 7 hours ago, Oregon said: Doesn't it change the platter height? And, with the portion of overhang of the paper, the outer platter still sits perfectly onto the sub? I'm thinking tolerances are intentionally pretty tight, even for the thickness of paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmz Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 10 hours ago, Steve Edwards said: And, with the portion of overhang of the paper, the outer platter still sits perfectly onto the sub? I'm thinking tolerances are intentionally pretty tight, even for the thickness of paper. A different mat, or a 150gm to 180gm record, would have greater vertical displacement. (Most paper is on the order of 0.004” thick, or 0.1 mm.) I doubt VTA is set that closely… and it seems like it is similar to a VTA error?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursus13 Posted January 13, 2023 Author Share Posted January 13, 2023 Considering a VPI Scout TT and the Ayre phono stage as a first vinyl set up. Any thoughts or experience with these components? A Dynavector 10x5 Mk2 cart was recommended to me for this set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctsooner Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 YOu'll need to listen to the Ayre before purchase. I personally found some others to be much more to my liking, but you never know. I have owned many Ayre products, but their phono stage wasn't my favorite one. I ended up with the Aesthetix and loved it. Many strong options in all price ranges. If you have a dealer, an audition would be the best thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmz Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) On 4/9/2022 at 5:12 AM, ursus13 said: Hello all, I know there are some seriously experienced vinyl users here, so I want to tap the brain-trust. I have never owned/used vinyl before and I'd love some suggestions and recommendations on how to get started. I don't know exactly what my budget is yet, but I'm looking at the Rega P6 and the VPI Prime Scout as top contenders. So that's the budget territory. (Totally open to other TT suggestions.) You may have mentioned it numbers, but what is the bduget in $? On 4/9/2022 at 5:12 AM, ursus13 said: Should one consider buying used, or is new the best option for a turntable? If you are adverse to a transformer, then the classic Japanese market is out of range. But Techniques, Luxman, Microseiki are usually worth a look. And a transformer is not always bad. (Most of our gear has one inside of them.) On 4/9/2022 at 5:12 AM, ursus13 said: Thoughts on how to allocate budget between TT, cart, and pre? TT: depends Arm: $1500-$5k Cart: $500+ Do you care where it is made? Edited January 14, 2023 by Holmz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursus13 Posted January 15, 2023 Author Share Posted January 15, 2023 Looking to spend around $6k. TT, arm, cart, pre. At some point in the future I’d love to do a Basis 2200 and Vector 9. Until then… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomicTime Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 work w closest Vandy dealer…they are all super experienced w phono playback…. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctsooner Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 Jim, that’s so true. Every Vandy dealer I’ve gone to (too many) have a great selection of vinyl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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