What amps are you using with your Steen's?

[ctsooner]

I have enjoyed the Niagara amps over the years. 

[Jeffgerman]

On 12/13/2021 at 7:45 PM, TomicTime said:

Jeff - sincere hopes they work magic for you !

jim

Hi again good folks on the Vandy forum.  I have an update on the M1 mono blocks.  While I was cautioned to the core with Richard V's response, my amps were already on their way.  As such, once hooked up, I was literally blown away.  The difference between these mono blocks and my nuforce STA-200 were stark.  Bass was much more pronounced and possessed more realism.  Highs were smoother and less harsh than the nuforce.  Overall it was remarkably better and I am very relieved I didn't blow that purchase.  I respect the "class A" and Class A/B" world, but being one that works in production and pro-audio for a day job, I thought new tech "Class D" might be where I wanted to head.  I'm glad I did it.  Interestingly enough, the Music Fidelity amps don't really open up until about 20 mins of listening.  I know it doesn't make engineering sense, but I hear the difference.  And once it does, it makes me smile.   I did just order a Schiit Freya plus and Mani phono amp to add my last step in my affordable rig. (VPI Scout/Music Fidelity M1 mono block, Audiolab 8000C/Cambridge Audio CD/Cambridge Audio Dac/Vandi Model 2's).  Happy New Year!

[Richard Vandersteen]

Jeff, you are happy with the sound which is a personal thing.  Great!  Just wanted Vandersteen lovers to know all class "D"  amps use very high amounts of feedback for operation which for many matters but not all.  The different designs do sound different as you have informed positively for the benefit of all.  Thanks. 

RV 

[Jeffgerman]

Thank you Richard.  As a fellow Vandersteen lover, I'm thrilled with the sound of these old speakers and the modern amp.  I really value your input.  I'll be buying some new socks for  model 2's soon from you as well. - Best, Jeff

[TomicTime]

Jeff - Musical enjoyment is first 🙂 So glad to hear this worked out for you. 

Richard and i were having a conversation about two competing amps in one of my systems and the conclusion was that the more emotionally satisfying amp was the right choice even if it sacrificed some neutrality. Not every system need push the state of the neutrality art  🙂 Also i think there are reasons grounded in physics for leaving ( especially a class D ) amp on or expecting sonic differences after stability achieved. Except for tubes, i leave stuff powered up. I do unplug during storms.

Best to you

Jim

[TomicTime]

@Moosethat is some fine gear 🙂 

[ctsooner]

I'm with Jim.  I've owned the highly neutral, blah blah blah electronics over the years and I always end up back to the gear that raises goosebumps on my neck.  It's one reason I LOVE Vandersteen now (I never heard it set up properly and missed the magic that is time and phase correct).  From there it's about keeping those two things (so no class D for me, but others love it and that's all that matters).  

[Moose]

On 1/8/2022 at 1:54 AM, TomicTime said:

@Moosethat is some fine gear 🙂 

Thanks, Tomic Time.  I put together my own first stereo 47 years ago and it's been a fun ride.  It was used equipment for a long time until recently.  Even though I have this stuff,  it's fun to find combinations at any price level that just get you into the music. 

[ctsooner]

I started at age 9. That was 1969.  CS t believe it’s been so long. What a fun ride with great stories and better people whom I’ve met over the years. 

[Oregon]

Running a "vintage" VTL ST-80 packed with new Russian-produced and matched "Mullard" 12AT7's plus EL-34's as the previously run NOS Siemens 12AT7"s plus Siemens EL-34 tubes sound flat compared with these new manufactured "Mullard" tubes. Sounding good, guys. Don't be afraid to try these new Russian productions. :^)

Cheers.

[Wideload]

Clayton Audio M-300 monos. Nothing else to compare with in my room. Have used the Claytons on the Chapmans for a couple years. Would love to try Atma-Sphere class D’s some day. Maybe for summer. The Clayton’s run Class A all the way and can get very warm when the house is rock in’. And man do they rock

[ctsooner]

12 minutes ago, Wideload said:

Clayton Audio M-300 monos. Nothing else to compare with in my room. Have used the Claytons on the Chapmans for a couple years. Would love to try Atma-Sphere class D’s some day. Maybe for summer. The Clayton’s run Class A all the way and can get very warm when the house is rock in’. And man do they rock

Keep in mind that if you want the Vandersteen time and phase correctness, that you will lose that with digital amps. I’ve heard great things about the Clayton’s, but sadly have never heard them. Glad you are enjoying 

[Holmz]

46 minutes ago, ctsooner said:

Keep in mind that if you want the Vandersteen time and phase correctness, that you will lose that with digital amps.

…

I am not convinced that is true.

The purifi in particular claims sinething like +/- 4 degrees of phase error at 20kHz

Edited May 17, 2022 by Holmz

[BKDad]

I love what you did with "sinething" - perfect here!

The time based error subject is really contentious, much like the idea of time and phase correct loudspeakers.  Lots of people swear - literally - that it doesn't matter and is a bunch of hokum.  I've never been sure whether these same people actually could not hear the difference because of the way their own aural systems developed as they grew up or whether it's because they are intellectually lazy and prefer the simple idea of frequency response being all there is.

Anyway, this might be of interest:  https://www.pearl-hifi.com/06_Lit_Archive/14_Books_Tech_Papers/Junction-Memory/Junction-Memory_Distortion.pdf

[BKDad]

Also may be of interest:  https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/the-kinergetics-patent-reducing-hysteresis-distortion.263204/

Follow the links, too.

Most everybody accepts the idea that hysteresis in certain components creates audible effects, like in audio transformers.  

Why not in every component?  

This includes capacitors, where the dielectric absorbs some energy and releases it over time.

Every component with magnetic content has hysterisis associated with it - even the nickel plating often used between the copper in connectors and the gold.  

There's thermal effects, too.  

And on and on.

Now, consider all of that in the context of "digital" amplifiers.  ("Digital" because they are on and off pulse based systems.)

I see that Purifi is concerned about all of this, too:  https://purifi-audio.com/2020/04/28/dist/

[Holmz]

8 hours ago, BKDad said:

…

I see that Purifi is concerned about all of this, too:  https://purifi-audio.com/2020/04/28/dist/

^That^ was very interesting.

I have hear some speakers with those Purifi drivers, and like my 2C they had a quiet sound when they were running a decent SPL… like 90+ dB (A).

[Stringreen]

I use all Ayre stuff......I found that tubes with 5A's are not for me..but fine for others.

[GdnrBob]

I use Ayre and Atmasphere with my Treo's.

The sound is damned close between the two. The Ayre has a slight advantage in the bass-mind you my amp and pre aren't in the Twenty status (MXR and KXR). @ctsooner says the Twenty really fleshes out the bass, so perhaps the Ayre would be better, but the Atma's are stock, no Caddock resistors, or tubes other than what came with the amp/pre.

I only bought them, to finally (for me), to compare the differences between tube and SS.-After a lifetime of reading about the merits of both technologies. That I purchased two of the finest examples of that tech was purely accidental.

And, YMMV

Bob

[ctsooner]

Yes the Ayre diamond circuit that Charles literally drew up while in a college class many years ago, makes a huge difference from top to bottom.  Their gear is so fast and so detailed, that some feel it's sterile. I"m not one of them. When you listen over a long period of time with Ayre, you realize just how great it is.  Like any manufacturer, they have their best products and one or two that may not be the leader if their categories.  

 

[bkeske]

Belles MB-200 mono blocks with a new Belles Aria Sig preamp.

Pretty happy with this combo supplying the Treo’s

Edited May 29, 2022 by bkeske

[Richard Vandersteen]

On 5/17/2022 at 4:18 PM, Holmz said:

^That^ was very interesting.

I have hear some speakers with those Purifi drivers, and like my 2C they had a quiet sound when they were running a decent SPL… like 90+ dB (A).

Yes, this distortion caused by the surround is why on our midranges have had flat surrounds for almost 40 years.  This why it is very important for a speaker to be a three way as soon as it is affordable.   RV

[GdnrBob]

5 hours ago, bkeske said:

Belles MB-200 mono blocks with a new Belles Aria Sig preamp.

Pretty happy with this combo supplying the Treo’s

I use Belles Aria Monoblocks and Aria Signature Preamp and a pair of HSU subs on my office system with the VLR's.

Very engaging.

 

Bob

[bkeske]

18 minutes ago, GdnrBob said:

I use Belles Aria Monoblocks and Aria Signature Preamp and a pair of HSU subs on my office system with the VLR's.

Very engaging.

 

Bob

Yep, Bob, those MB monos are kinda special. As is the Sig pre, which has broken in nicely.

[GdnrBob]

Oh yeah, I forgot you got one, too.

 

[Holmz]

6 hours ago, Richard Vandersteen said:

Yes, this distortion caused by the surround is why on our midranges have had flat surrounds for almost 40 years.  This why it is very important for a speaker to be a three way as soon as it is affordable.   RV

There are recently a few speakers I have heard, that are as quiet as my ol 2Cs.

your pistonic cone work and their work on the motor side, both cut distortion. So a few ways to skin a cat.